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Niners Nation Q&A

Hey folks, this is Fooch from Niners Nation.  With the dramatic showdown coming up this Monday night between your Cardinals and my 49ers, I thought I'd open up the floor to questions you might have.  The 49ers are playing admist some serious turmoil as we've got a new head coach who seems to coach/motivate by the seat of his pants (or pants-less as the case may be).

On other sites I've gone into the offensive and defensive strengths and weaknesses of the 49ers, but we've reached a point in the 49ers season where things have changed rather dramatically.  J.T. O'Sullivan was finally benched two weeks ago in the Seattle game, and Shaun Hill was inserted in the starting lineup.  Many fans have been clamoring for this change and I have to say, the time had finally come for it to happen.

This change mixes things up for the 49ers offense.  While JTO brought the big play to the 49ers offense, that big play might be for or against the team.  Prior to his benching, he led the NFL in turnovers and sacks due in some part to a bad offensive line and in large part to his own poor judgement.

Under Shaun Hill, the offense will be a little more methodical, but should be a lot more consistent.  He'll use the tight ends and running backs a lot more as his ability with the deep pass is really just not there.  He worked with the first team offense the last week and a half for the first time since the first week of training camp.  It will be interesting to see how much of the traditional Mike Martz playbook we see with Hill at the helm.

As for the defense, well it's been god-awful.  I've felt there is too much talent for them to be this bad so I blame it on the coaching.  Hopefully the switch from Nolan to Singletary will remove some of the way too conservative constraints on the D.  It was hideous under Singletary against Seattle, but I'm hoping the bye week allowed them to get rid of the last vestiges of the Mike Nolan super-soft D.

With that, I open the floor to questions on anything and everything.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Revenge of the Birds' (ROTB) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of ROTB's editors.

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I'll start this b/c there's one question that's been bugging me

I know that JTO has become the scapegoat for the struggling offense, and deservedly so, but it seems like to me he was just following the Mike Martz game plan. From my limited knowledge of his system it seems like the plan most of the time is to stand in the pocket as long you can and heave the ball down field. While it has a tendency to lead to big plays, it also results in a high turnover rate and a beat up QB (just ask Warner and Jon Kitna). I guess my question is, have the Niners been sticking to Martz’s system or is JTO really playing poorly regardless of the system? Also are they planning on ‘toning down’ the system with Hill at QB and playing more conservative? Third and final question, how do you feel about Martz’s job as OC and how responsible is he for the struggles?

by cgolden on Nov 6, 2008 10:21 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

Martz offense and JTO

1. Part of the 49ers problem with the Martz system has been the less than stellar play of the offensive line. When your offense is going to give up a lot of sacks anyways, a bad offensive line doesn’t help matters. However, I think JTO’s turnover problem was a combination of the Martz offense and JTO’s own bad judgment. A lot of his turnovers were not on deep bombs down field, but rather 10-20 yard passes where he either locked on his receiver or didn’t notice the safety coming in to make the pick.

JTO has the mobility to escape a collapsing pocket, but sometimes it’s better to throw the ball away. He seemed to hold on even longer than a Martz offense would.

2. This brings us to question 2. One of Hill’s strengths is his decisiveness. If the play is there to be made he’ll make the pass, otherwise he’ll throw the ball out of bounds or at the feet of a nearby running back. I do think we’ll see a toned down version of the offense in less big plays deep. However, I think this will create more consistency overall, which is something this offense desperately needs.

3. I think Martz has certainly improved the offense from last year, but seeing as they were at rock bottom, that might not be saying a lot. I think we’ve gotten everything we could expect from a Martz offense, both good and bad. I realize the truth behind you run when you’re winning (as opposed to winning because you’re running). However, the biggest disappointment has been the use of Frank Gore. I’m not worried about whether he rushes 25-30 times a game, but rather his overall touches. With Hill at the helm I think we’ll see more Frank Gore receptions because Hill is more willing to check down to him. The prototypical 49ers fan frustration might be the Eagles game when the 49ers were leading heading into the 4th quarter and basically abandoned Frank Gore. For those that recall the game, it did not end well.

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by Fooch on Nov 6, 2008 11:34 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

From my limited knowledge of his system it seems like the plan most of the time is to stand in the pocket as long you can and heave the ball down field.

First of all, I’ll say that this idea sheds some light on the problem. The Martz offense isn’t actually about sitting in the pocket as long as possible. What it does involve is a strong focus on 5-7 step drops, which are longer developing plays and will give the appearance of sitting in the pocket as long as possible. The true key to the Martz offense, though, is precision. It’s not an ad lib style offense. The receivers have very specific routes and the quarterback has very specific reads. The plays are designed so that the quarterback will take his drop, make his reads, and release the ball. If your first read is there, you get rid of the ball early. If none of your reads are there, you throw the ball away. If you don’t throw the ball away, you get sacked. There is literally no wiggle room there. The offense is designed to give the quarterback just enough time to make his reads and release the ball. Anything that happens after that is not only not by design, it’s not really considered.

One thing that Martz has said again and again in some form is that if his receivers run their routes precisely and his quarterback makes his reads quickly, none of his plays should ever fail.

The problem with JTO in this offense was three-fold: 1) his reads were slow, 2) he tried to extend his plays, and 3) he completely failed to protect the football under every circumstance. You can see how these things all cause problems in the Martz offense. You can also see how the Martz offense causes problems for any quarterback who isn’t highly developed. Martz doesn’t help his players, but what really killed us was that JTO didn’t help himself. He could have tucked the ball to his chest when he scrambled. He could have thrown the ball away when he ran out of reads. He could have done any number of supremely obvious things in order to improve his production, and he didn’t do a single one.

I’ve heard that Singlatary wants to tone down the offense, but I also believe that the offense remains Martz’s above all. And because of that I would speculate that no changes will be coming. Adjustments aren’t made in the Martz system for personnel. The idea is supposed to be that any competent personnel can execute it. The main benefit with Hill is that he makes SIGNIFICANTLY faster reads than any quarterback we’ve had since Garcia. The second biggest benefit to Hill is that he protects the ball. Say what you will about his talent, but he’s been stingy with turnovers in limited his play. Those things are going to work heavily in his favor. What he lacks is arm strength and touch. He doesn’t have a very accurate arm and he doesn’t have a very strong arm, both things which work against him in a Martz offense. He’s also never been tested against a real defense, so we’ve actually never seen the real Shaun Hill.

It will be interesting.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Nov 6, 2008 7:50 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

How do you 49er's fans feel about the switch mid season?

Does Shaun Hill provide a long term solution, or was that move just damage control? If so, does that mean the 49ers are throwing in the towel this year?

How is Martz’s and Singletary’s relationship since the move and Martz was slighted?

Minus 3 or 4 games, all but 1 was a loss, why has Gore been so ineffective in leading this team to a win? You would think they would rely on their strengths more right?

What can we expect to see in the MNF game this next week?

Just a few Q’s off the top of my head?

by boogatt66 on Nov 6, 2008 10:29 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

From this Niner fan's prespective...

I don’t know if I speak for all Niner fans, but I highly doubt that Shaun Hill will be taken seriously as a viable QB option next year. That being said, its more than just damage control. Hill performed pretty admirably last year at the end of the season, and he had a very nice 2nd half last week. We all were pretty aware that JTO was a high risk / high reward move, and he just held onto the ball too long to be effective.

As far as Martz and Mike, they’ve both said all the right things. I’m sure that Martz knows that he’ll have no shot at any head coaching job next year if he pouts and makes things difficult for Singletary now. I’m not even too sure that Martz was slighted, as Singletary was the “assistant head coach”, despite no experience.

Outside of the Giant game (total loss), Gore has been really phenomenal for this team. In the games that his numbers aren’t particularly gaudy, he has helped out a ton in the passing game. You gotta remember there have been more than a few games where we’ve been playing from behind. For a Mike Martz run offense, a deficit means you abandon the run and air the ball out. Other than that, he’s held onto the ball, and has been generally the RB I’ve hoped for.

Because Hill is starting instead of JTO this week, I would guess that you’ll see a ton of short to mid-range passes, with Gore being the main beneficiary. The Shaun Hill led 2nd half last week was a dink and dunk show, but fairly effective. If the game’s close, the Niners will run.

by JerseyNinerFan on Nov 6, 2008 11:30 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

midseason switch

1. To use some coach-speak, I actually think Hill gives the team the best chance to win right now. He doesn’t turn the ball over like O’Sullivan and he keeps the offense consistent. Going forward, one possible situation would be the 49ers drafting a QB in the 2009 draft, but rather than throwing him to the wolves, let Hill (or even Alex Smith if he comes back at a league minimum contract) be the man for 2009 and 2010. One could compare it to the Steve McNair development. He was drafted in 1995 and in the 95 and 96 seasons he made brief appearances and slowly developed before being handed the reigns in his 3rd season.

2. While Martz has a huge ego, he certainly seems to be taking the situation well. I’d imagine given the train wreck of a season, he might not be as disappointed in not getting the job. I believe he’s signed to a 2-year deal and if he sticks around through next year and the offense gets turned around he’ll get offers that might be more attractive. I think he’s enough of a professional to accept the situation. And Singletary getting promoted wasn’t a stunning decision (as opposed to moving up some other random assistant) because he was being groomed for a head coaching job.

3. As I mentioned in response to Charle

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by Fooch on Nov 6, 2008 11:41 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

whoops

accidentally clicked post. Here’s the rest:

3. As I mentioned in response to Charles’s questions, the lack of use of Frank Gore at times can be frustrating. At the same time, there have been games where it’s clearly not going to be a good game for the run. One game saw Gore rush 11 times for 11 yards. However, for the most part he’s been an effective running back. I’m curious to see how he’s utilized by Shaun Hill. Like I said, Hill is more likely to dump off passes to the back. Given how bad the team has been, Gore is still performing well. He’s 8th in the league in rushing yards and tied for 10th at 4.6 yards per rush.

4. I’d expect significantly fewer turnovers on offense. There won’t be the same explosiveness, but I think the 49ers will benefit accordingly. As I’m planning on posting Monday, this is the make or break game of the season. If they lose this, they can pack it in. If they come out swinging and can pull off the upset, this season remains salvageable. It’ll be interesting to see how strong or flat they come out after two full weeks of Singletary.

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by Fooch on Nov 6, 2008 11:45 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Realistically

at 2-6, and the way this team’s performing, it wouldn’t be realistic to think that Niner fans are thinking playoffs.

More likely, I really just want to see some (any) kind of improvement over the next few weeks. The results against you guys, as well as the next few games after that really show the kind of team we are under Singletary.

by JerseyNinerFan on Nov 6, 2008 11:52 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

PLAYOFFS??

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Nov 6, 2008 1:37 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Haha!

Thats pretty much what I was getting at…

by JerseyNinerFan on Nov 6, 2008 7:31 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the firing of Nolan was the moment that the team threw in the towel for the year. Shaun Hill isn’t just damage control. He actually seems to be the better option. He’s almost certainly not a long-term solution right now, but he’s still young enough that you have to believe this is his chance to establish himself in that role. He doesn’t have the latent talent (hey, those two words use the same letters), and his chances are clearly slim from a pure scouting perspective, but if the team had been looking for nothing more than a pure damage-control stop-gap after JTO, you would be seeing Jamie Martin instead this week.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Nov 6, 2008 7:57 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome Back Fooch

A very different landscape the NFL has become since that first match-up in week 1.

A change in coaching leadership usually entails a churning of the roster, something we have known far too well in Big Red. How much of the 49ers’ roster will survive the off-season? Half? Less? More? Wild-ass guesses are fine. Which chunk of the team will have the biggest turnover? WR? OL? LB?

How much do you miss Eddie DeBartalo? I’ve lived in NoCal for 35 years and watched/rooted for many a Niners team. Hell, I remember OJ Simpson in Niner red! It seems the team went to hell when Eddie was stripped of ownership. Granted, Carmen Policy and Dwight Clark did a stellar job to boot. Drukenmiller over Plummer? WTF?!

Uniforms: seeing the old uni’s against the Seahawks, I got all-misty eyed for the old days. What do you think, return to “old school” or stick with the current look?

Any hope of a new stadium at Candlestick Point in the next ten years? Any hope of getting to the Bay Bridge in less than three hours after a Niner game is over?

Do you think Singletary has a chance to survive as the coach for next season? How many “colourful” anecdotes do we still have to look forward to?

At least the “Niners aren’t the Raiders”. It’s like comparing two turds, one corn-encrusted, the other with nuts. Both are still shit, aren’t they?

Seriously though, keep the chin up Fooch and the rest of the Niner nation and pull for the Cards this season. What are the alternatives? Giants? ‘Skins? Panthers (remember ’96!)? I’m sure we’ll get the chance to return the favour in the future.

We all leave footprints in the sands of time, just watch out for the discarded fish hooks!

by Hawkwind on Nov 6, 2008 10:38 AM MST reply actions   0 recs

Second to last comment comes...

…from a fan of a team that had been shitty so long it had fossilized into a coprolite. So it’s meant in jest.

Oh, and Oakland is the one with nuts.

We all leave footprints in the sands of time, just watch out for the discarded fish hooks!

by Hawkwind on Nov 6, 2008 11:41 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

different landscape indeed

1. It’s certainly hard to tell what will get purged in the offseason. I remain convinced that the 49ers have a lot of talented football players on their team, but they’re just not bringing it all together. If the season continues like this I’d actually expect the biggest turnover to be among the coaches. If the defense doesn’t improve I don’t see how DC Greg Manusky returns. And if the 49ers go out and get a more veteran coach, I’d expect Martz to get axed as well.

As far as players though, if Delanie Walker can show some consistency, Vernon Davis could certainly find himself with a pink slip.

2. The fans certainly miss Eddie D, although one can argue the team went to hell after he left because of the shenanigans he and Policy pulled with the salary cap. One interesting note on that is that John and Denise York’s son Jed is officially becoming the face of the franchise (he introduced Singletary), and many people see a lot of Eddie in him in the way he acts and his mannerisms and whatnot. Eddie also happens to be his god-father.

As much crap as the York’s get, I really think they’ve improved as owners over the years. Mike Nolan was not a bad hire at the time, and the only real complaint might be that they waited too long to fire him. In the last couple years, they’ve opened the checkbook and stepped out of the way which is all you can ask of an owner.

3. They’re working on new uniforms that should debut in 2010 I think. Apparently they’ll include some more of a throwback look, although nothing has been released yet. I vote old school though.

4. I think it’s more likely that a stadium is built in Santa Clara than at Candlestick Point. Given the availability of CalTrain I don’t think it will be all that bad. All I ask is that they stay in the Bay Area. Whether it’s SF or the South Bay I don’t really care. Just don’t go to LA!

5. If he can show some improvement he could definitely be brought back in 2009. The next few weeks are going to be key for him. Like I said above, this Monday night game is a make or break for the season and might very well be for him as well. I do eagerly await his post-game comments after his first win. At the very least he’s brought a new kind of entertainment to the post-game.

6. At least the 49ers aren’t run by Al Davis. He’s running that team into the ground as he grows more and more senile. At least we know we don’t have a QB of the future. The Raiders have yet to realize Jamarcus Russell isn’t the answer.

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by Fooch on Nov 6, 2008 11:58 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Gak!

“All I ask is that they stay in the Bay Area. Whether it’s SF or the South Bay I don’t really care. Just don’t go to LA!”

Amen!!! Send back the Raiders!

We all leave footprints in the sands of time, just watch out for the discarded fish hooks!

by Hawkwind on Nov 6, 2008 12:10 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

100th Anniversary season is only 12 short seasons away!

Superstition won out that year. They wore the anniversary uni’s and were winning, went to the regularly set one game and lost, then back to the anniversary uniforms through the Super Bowl. The only year I didn’t hate Sanders. :P

We all leave footprints in the sands of time, just watch out for the discarded fish hooks!

by Hawkwind on Nov 6, 2008 1:50 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Man...

So I’m not the only one who was absolutely in love with those jerseys… I got a Ricky Watters and Steve Young of that style…

by JerseyNinerFan on Nov 6, 2008 7:32 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I actually think those are quite ugly.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Nov 6, 2008 7:58 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I just hate the jerseys we have now… I’d give anything to wear the old school ones we wore sunday, different results of course..

by JerseyNinerFan on Nov 7, 2008 6:01 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the only real change we see in the offseason

will be a new head coach (if a big-name guy, he’ll bring his own men to replace the current staff), and maybe a FA defensive lineman. I think they’ll draft a QB and either stick with Shaun Hill or pick up a cheap free agent from this list (My vote would be Collins, and have the team adopt a Tennessee-type mindset of running first, and throwing when you have to).

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Nov 6, 2008 1:46 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Great list!

There are two names on there that I think are ready to be a lasting starter for the Niners, and most other teams as well. Byron Leftwich and Charlie Batch. Both are currently in Pitt, and I believe only one (more than likely Leftwich) has the time or the cap room to wait around in Pitt. Batch is exceptionally talented and is ready to take the reins of a team for a 3-5 year stretch. Pitt has had him locked up in contracts for a long time and the man is ready to be a leader. I equate Batch this year to Michael Turner last year. A starter playing behind a starter.

I would like to see you guys sign one of them and finally put an end to the QB controversy.

by CardsFan08 on Nov 7, 2008 12:07 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Batch

I’m a partial Steelers fan and I’ve got plenty of friends who are Steeler-die hards so believe me when I say that Batch will stay in Pittsburgh as long as they’ll have him. He’s from the area and he’s very involved in the community. For whatever reason he’s been very comfortable being the backup in Pittsburgh and being close to his home community and family.

The Steelers may let him go after this year though b/c they drafted Dennis Dixon in the 5th round last year but I wouldn’t be surprised if Batch just retires.

by cgolden on Nov 7, 2008 6:19 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Starting your career in Detroit, a back-up gig in Pittsburgh must be Nirvana

We all leave footprints in the sands of time, just watch out for the discarded fish hooks!

by Hawkwind on Nov 7, 2008 6:53 AM MST up reply actions   0 recs

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