Should James Harrison Have Been Ejected From Super Bowl XLIII?
by Hawkwind on Feb 2, 2009 2:36 PM MST
in 2008 Playoffs
61 comments
I've gotten several e-mails regarding this subject and I see it's being discussed in several different places, so I'll offer it up to fans of the Arizona Cardinals: Should James Harrison have been ejected for his personal foul penalty against Aaron Francisco? If you don't remember the play or didn't get a good look at the foul, you can check it out:
From what I can see, he threw an short punch around the five second mark that didn't amount to much and probably wouldn't have been a penalty if it had stopped there. The real point of contention came around the eight second mark. I'll leave it at that and post my personal thoughts about it in the comments with every one else.
It's also worth mentioning that Harrison didn't have much on a impact on the game after the punt so his ejection wouldn't have had an changed the outcome of the game, in my opinion. The Cardinals had the ball twice after this punt and the first was the two play drive that ended with Fitzgerald's 64 yard touchdown reception. On the second series he made a tackle on JJ Arrington 13 yards down field. With all that being said I ask you, should James Harrison have been ejected for his personal foul on Aaron Francisco?
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Oh come on – there was nothing wrong with that. they teach you to do that. Francisco should have tried to get up or something.
clean play
next controversial topic please
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Feb 2, 2009 2:48 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Clean play
Why the flags then?
Fricken tard
by badmatty53 on Feb 2, 2009 4:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
it was completely a clean play. The refs threw way to many flags in that game, and this was one of the ones they should have held….retard.
What if the Steelers returned that kick…that would have been an excellent block. The play was still going on and he didnt mess with his facemask or anything.
by Clyde Simmons on Feb 3, 2009 6:17 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I am LMAO at this Matt!
Fricken Tard, lol…
Who would win in a fight, Whisenhunt or a Hurricane?
Hold on, hold on, what if the Hurricanes name was Whisenhunt?
Daaaaaaaaaa Cards, Da Cards Da Cards Da Cards Da Cards!!!
by boogatt66 on Feb 3, 2009 10:57 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Fricken tard
now now – dont’ attack the person – attack the comment – douche (not nice is it?)
it was clean – only a pansy thinks that was wrong – or clearly never played football for a contending team.
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Feb 3, 2009 2:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
John Madden
isn’t exactly a pansy — nor does he like that kind of ball, but he was the first to suggest that Harrison should have been ejected.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Feb 3, 2009 4:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
And got to be first one wrong...
John Madden is hardly someone that I’d call infallible.
by Azimeir on Feb 3, 2009 5:54 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Not saying he's right.
Just saying it’s stupid to call anyone whose opinion differs “a pansy”.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Feb 4, 2009 12:03 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
well i was just saying pansy – wasn’t mean to demean anyone – just the word that came out.
and as far as Madden – all commentators are restricted on things – you can’t expect them to go out and say it was a great and bla bla bla.
rick jeanerette gets blasted from NHL all the time because he does “play by play” for fights.
regardless – its just unreal to me, being a former highschool and college football player that people think that he should have been ejected.
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Feb 4, 2009 12:06 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Madden is wrong like 90 times a game.
by Clyde Simmons on Feb 4, 2009 6:56 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It's football.
Looks to me like the guy was trying to chop Harrison at the knees. Harrison got pissed and made him his bitch.
When I say who dey, you say we dey.
by sn0wballz on Feb 2, 2009 2:49 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Funny
how Steelers fans automatically think it was bullshit.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Feb 2, 2009 3:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Pittsburg Fan Here!!!
I so wanted Pittsburg to win but when I saw Harrison do that I changed my mind. Yes Pittsburg won but I think Harrison is a punk!
by heathsmom03 on Feb 3, 2009 2:36 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
And my thoughts on the play
I think the small punching was a little excessive, but when he knocked him over… how is that any different than any other block? C’mon guys.
by tdp992 on Feb 3, 2009 4:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
TDP is such a real fan...
if Harrison was into rough jail sex, he’d have no problem surrendering his ass for the team!
Who would win in a fight, Whisenhunt or a Hurricane?
Hold on, hold on, what if the Hurricanes name was Whisenhunt?
Daaaaaaaaaa Cards, Da Cards Da Cards Da Cards Da Cards!!!
by boogatt66 on Feb 4, 2009 9:02 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling
that a real Steelers fan would know how to spell Pittsburgh.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Feb 3, 2009 5:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he should have been ejected
when it happened at the time, and I haven’t really seen anything to change my mind.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Feb 2, 2009 3:14 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
However,
on second thought, I’d really have to think about it — there’s certainly an argument to be made that it wasn’t what it looked like at the time — and if you eject Harrison, in the Super Bowl, you’re taking away one of the Steelers’ best players and the DPOY. If the call was borderline as to whether or not it warranted an ejection, for a ref to eject him in the championship game is a tough call.
Then again, the refs didn’t really seem to have any problem calling plenty of borderline penalties last night that might have affected the outcome.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Feb 2, 2009 8:50 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
IT WAS DURING THE PLAY!! Legal Block! Wasn’t like he hit him in the back or after the play was over.
by Clyde Simmons on Feb 3, 2009 6:18 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually,
even Pittsburgh fans admitted that it might have been a second or two after the whistle.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Feb 3, 2009 4:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The hard shove to the ground was not after the whistle. The additional mild blocking may have been, but it’s hard to tell from the replay.
Pittsburgh Lumber Co.
http://mvn.com/pittsburghlumberco
by MBandi on Feb 3, 2009 5:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that it's hard to tell
is the reason why I think a personal foul w/o ejection was appropriate. (Changed my mind after the game)
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Feb 3, 2009 5:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Watch the replay again, right as he is blocking him to the ground you can see the steeler in the background calling a fair catch. That means the ball was still in the air, and it still has a few seconds to bounce around. Plus, there is always some time when people are going to be blocking and hitting each other after the whistle.
by Clyde Simmons on Feb 4, 2009 6:58 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You have to put team alliegence aside for a minute...
The rules are simple, throw a punch and get ejected. Talk to players from San Diego in the playoffs or the Browns, etc. Punching followed by excessive pushing gets you ejected. A block is one thing, punching is another.
If Fitz had walked up to a guy and punched him, then did the same he would have been ejected, and rightly so.
by CardsFan08 on Feb 2, 2009 5:54 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I posted the same question on BehindtheSteelCurtain...
And got some great responses.
Those guys are classy over there. I made my piece about the two things I’m bellyaching over, one is this, the other is that I would have liked an official review after the Warner “fumble”. Just a review, it could go the same way, but it seemed like the go ahead kneel down was a little hasty for my taste.
by CardsFan08 on Feb 2, 2009 6:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I was not rooting for either team, so I think I am pretty unbiased here. That was in no way a punch. You want to punch someone you get underneath their facemask, you dont hit them in the shoulder pads. That was definitely a block during the play, and should have been 100% legal. I played O-line in highschool and if you pancake blocked someone you were allowed to sit on them until the play was over.
by Clyde Simmons on Feb 3, 2009 6:22 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
its called a “jab” and its completely legal
Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider
by J2 on Feb 3, 2009 3:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with CardsFan08
you throw a punch in an NFL game and you get tossed. I have been wanting to express my opinion about this. Thank you for allowing me to do so. Harrison should have been done with that one.
by Blackknigh on Feb 2, 2009 8:13 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
What really got MY goat
was the fact that, due to the Cards’ excellent punt coverage, the personal foul ended up being about a 2 foot penalty.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Feb 2, 2009 8:59 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a Pittsburgh Fan...
If you watch the film, actually watch it, you can see that he struck the guy with an open hand. Watch it again and watch his hand come away from the Cardinal; the dark fingers of the glove blend with the dark jersey and it looks like a fist, but it is an open hand. If striking with an open hand is considered a punch then every single offensive and defensive lineman needs to be ejected from every game.
If the problem has to do with not letting the guy get up… well, I just don’t know what to say to that. It’s a live play; he doesn’t have to let the guy get up. In fact, it being a competitive event and all, he has at least one reason I can think of to make sure the guy stays down. Laying on top of a player is, I think, against the rules, and Harrison obeys them. He waits to see if the guy is going to submit. The guy doesn’t, so Harrison shoves him down and there’s still no whistle. Dude tries to get up again, Harrison shoves him down again.
Embarrassing? Yes. Illegal? No. Shouldn’t have even been a whistle. My guess is that they made the same mistake with the “punch”.
by Azimeir on Feb 2, 2009 10:05 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I thought I wanted to be a Pittsburg fan until now
Shouldn’t have even been a whistle? What? Harrison was still trying to punk him when the cardinal player was on his feet face to face, Harrison was still pushing him trying to provoke. It’s football not WWF!
by hammockm on Feb 2, 2009 10:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a lot of pushing in WWF?
Pittsburgh Lumber Co.
http://mvn.com/pittsburghlumberco
by MBandi on Feb 2, 2009 11:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The rules are simple, throw a punch and get ejected.
and
you throw a punch in an NFL game and you get tossed.
Ummm… no.
According to the NFL website, the only automatic ejections are using the helmet as a weapon, or hitting the ref. Everything else is at the officials’ discretion. The closest wording for this situation are:
“Closed fist (if flagrant)” — ehhhh… not sure a wussy half-punch to the guy’s shoulderpads is what they meant, and I’m not even sure Harrison’s fist was closed.
“Malicious unnecessary roughness”… maybe, though that sounds more like Haynesworth stomping Gurode’s head.
Harrison’s behavior was pretty cheap, and he absolutely deserved the 15, but ejection? That’s a bit much.
by pfellah on Feb 2, 2009 10:24 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
false choice
Your poll has two choices — what he did was so dirty that it was ejection-worthy, or whether it was just regular blocking. It’s a false question. You leave out the most obvious option, the call that was actually made: no, he wasn’t “just blocking,” and yes, he went beyond the pale of what is legal, and deserved the personal foul he received, but the foul was not so egregious that he deserved to be tossed for it.
Please explain to me why this play was worse than, say, Wilson blatantly flattening the Steeler holder on the F.G. attempt? You can’t claim that it wasn’t intentional — if he’s trying to block the kick he’s on a different trajectory — and the play put the offended player at much more risk of injury than Harrison’s.
Are you going to run a poll asking only if Wilson’s play should have gotten him ejected or if it was perfectly legal?
Both players got exactly what they deserved — a penalty.
by BuzzNutter on Feb 3, 2009 7:54 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I don't see
the equivalence here — there’s at least an ARGUMENT to be made for Harrison getting ejected; not so for Wilson.
Additionally, that might have been a point of contention had the Cards won, but as they didn’t, the focus is on official calls that “went the way of” the Steelers.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Feb 3, 2009 5:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Stop reaching with these ridiculous post’s Cards fans! I know you guys arent used to being in the National spotlight, but just save what little respect you’ve garnered for yourself by being graceful in defeat!
by Steeler Ric on Feb 3, 2009 10:22 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
So if the winner discusses this it's cool but if the loser does it's whining?
And come on SR, it’s much more therapeutic to discuss something that’s debatable than to discus something that isn’t: Steelers Super Bowl XLIII champions. Already bored with that? I think the re-air is today on NFL Network.
We all leave footprints in the sands of time, just watch out for the discarded fish hooks!
by Hawkwind on Feb 3, 2009 10:31 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Should we
be posting this at Behind the Steel Curtain instead?
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Feb 3, 2009 4:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I am SHOCKED by how many people think this was illegal
I’m… I just… I don’t know what to say. It’s… football. This happened to me more than once when I used to play and it was never called a penalty, and I can think of no reason it should have been.
Could someone please explain to me – and I’m being serious here – which part of this is illegal in your mind.
by Azimeir on Feb 3, 2009 10:33 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
The shove as Francisco was regaining his feet...
…was “excessive” primarily because the ball was 45+ yards downfield and in the process of being downed. Everything before the shove just reaffirms my general opinion of Aaron Francisco and that the Cards can certainly make some gains in the back-up safeties this offseason.
We all leave footprints in the sands of time, just watch out for the discarded fish hooks!
by Hawkwind on Feb 3, 2009 10:43 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
OK
We will have to agree to disagree on that.
Do you think he should have been ejected?
by Azimeir on Feb 3, 2009 10:52 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
that and it was a WWE choke slam. not really a football move now is it?
by hevchv on Feb 3, 2009 11:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey chief, pop warner doesn't freaking count, ASS!
Who would win in a fight, Whisenhunt or a Hurricane?
Hold on, hold on, what if the Hurricanes name was Whisenhunt?
Daaaaaaaaaa Cards, Da Cards Da Cards Da Cards Da Cards!!!
by boogatt66 on Feb 3, 2009 11:04 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I played football as well and completely agree. If you are on punt team, you are going to get blocked. Does that mean you go and head hunt the punter to knock his teeth in? no, but harrison was just taking a guy out of the play who should have/could have been downfield making a play.
by Clyde Simmons on Feb 3, 2009 2:05 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
It is whining...
he didnt even throw a punch! Your Cardinals played a great game and gave the Steelers all they wanted in the Big Show, but to suggest throwing Harrison out for playing football is a reach and petty at best! Im just saying…you guys have nothing to be ashamed of and just reaffirmed what I already knew about your team…you guys can play! You just dont want to fall into the ranks of sour losers like the Seahawks when they got ran in Superbowl 40. Hat’s off to you Hawkwind and your squad; good luck next year Pittsburgh West.
by Steeler Ric on Feb 3, 2009 10:50 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Bitter coffee and rain 75% of the year will make anyone sour given time.
Or turn you into a mold man and a fan of Dungeons and Dragons.
Whining, therapy, it’s all semantics SR. I’d rather have our users get the “whine” out here rather than take a turn for the worst like one famous Seattle resident.
We all leave footprints in the sands of time, just watch out for the discarded fish hooks!
by Hawkwind on Feb 3, 2009 11:14 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
RIP
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Feb 3, 2009 5:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Harrison ejected
There should have been offsetting penaties if anything. A d-end or lenbacker is taught to either punch or drive a forarm in the back plate of the shoulder pads when he is being cut. My question is why wasn’t flag trown on the cut block outside of the tackel box? You can only cut tackel to tackel not out to the tightend.
by o-line on Feb 3, 2009 11:30 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Hoockeded on fonicz wrked fur ME!!!!
Who would win in a fight, Whisenhunt or a Hurricane?
Hold on, hold on, what if the Hurricanes name was Whisenhunt?
Daaaaaaaaaa Cards, Da Cards Da Cards Da Cards Da Cards!!!
by boogatt66 on Feb 3, 2009 11:42 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
this is true, but its something I have noticed never gets called anymore Another non calls is on tackles extending their arm past their shoulders to stop a guy from getting around them on the outside.
by Clyde Simmons on Feb 3, 2009 2:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
The league
has generally made a conscious effort to change officials’ emphasis to help out the offenses more, since the Rams-Pats Super Bowl.
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Feb 3, 2009 5:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Right or wrong.....
there hasn’t been anyone ejected all season for this! There have been full on multiple punch fights thrown during games. Why change the way it’s been called for the super bowl? (see Pats vs. Miami). I’m not saying Harrison was in the right, I don’t think he was. However, you can’t changed how this has been called all season for the super bowl.
by Cdsumm on Feb 3, 2009 1:45 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather err to the side of not calling it than calling it in the playoffs
We all leave footprints in the sands of time, just watch out for the discarded fish hooks!
by Hawkwind on Feb 3, 2009 2:07 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play." - Joe Posnanski
by DbacksSkins on Feb 3, 2009 4:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
One more rule and I may snap...
THIS IS FOOTBALLLLLLL….Just as Troy Polamalu said earlier this season,“…just loses so much of its essence when it becomes like a pansy game.”
It is time to MAN UP…Its a physical game, emotions are running wild especially in such a big game. James Harrison is a beast however, Aaron Francisco plays in the NFL, he can obviously handle himself.
The only player I felt sorry for is Larry Fitzgerald, he was the only one playing with any heart. Best of luck to him, I hope he can sign with a team where he belongs.
Also, Anquan Boldin questions the integrity of the cardinal football organization:
“I don’t think the relationship can be repaired with the organization. It takes more than, ‘Well, we did you wrong and we’ll pay you this.’ It’s not about the money. It was always about the principle, guys being true to their word. I guess I was expected to uphold my end of the bargain, and it wasn’t reciprocated.”
There is the Steeler Nation and then there is the Hater Nation.
Oh yeah and…
We shocked the world!
by 6rings2NV on Feb 6, 2009 9:57 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
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