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Highsmith, Branch and the 3-4: do the pieces fit for the Cardinals?

Thank you mbn for taking the time to post the following.  ~~~Hawk

Coach Davis has said he intends to implement more 3-4 principles in the defense this year.  If a more traditional 3-4 becomes the base defense, how is that likely to impact the roster and do the players we have fit a 3-4?  I thought I would take a crack at each level of defense and see how and who fits the 3-4 if the Cards went to a true 3-4 base.

Nose Tackle: The heart of any 3-4 is the Nose Tackle with this person ideally 6'2"-6'4" and 330+ pounds.  The main role is to demand a double team from the center and guard and to stuff the run.  At 6'4" 304, Bryan Robinson is not a nose tackle and would probably move to DE in a true 3-4, which is where he was intended to play when they brought him in.  Gabe Watson and Alan Branch on the other hand, fit the bill at 329 and 338 respectively.  If he will play his role, Branch may blossom as the 3-4 nose tackle.  He doesn't have to rush the basser, he just needs to keep his backside low and push some interior lineman around. In many ways his assignment is less complicated in a 3-4.   If he could do that he may find a home for himself for the future.  If they run a true 3-4 base, I see Branch improving and increasing his playing time if he will just try which has been his biggest knock the past two seasons. 

Defensive End: Calais Campbell is custom made for a 3-4 DE as he is long and strong.  Tall DEs tend to do better in a 3-4 because they can match tackles arm length and keep separation.  A DE's job is to close down run lanes, hold the edge and force the offensive tackle to pay attention to him.  Unlike a 4-3, the DE doesn't have to be the source of pressure in the pass; he has to eat blocks, break up passing lanes, and close down running lanes.  Campbell looks like the ideal 3-4 DE.  Darnell Dockett, on the other hand, is the classic DT for a 4-3.  I am not sure he is willing to play the unglamorous role that a 3-4 DE plays.  He is shorter than the ideal 3-4 DE.  It wil be interesting to see what the Cardinals do with him or if they will still run a hybrid scheme just to highlight Docket's skills.  Campbell fits better than Dockett in the 3-4.

Outside Linebacker: These are the real play makers of a 3-4 as they are the main source of pressure on a quarterback.  While the front three occupy the offensive linemen, the OLB bring the heat when the situation warrants but they also have to be able to drop into space and cover.  Much has been said about the challenge of learning to play in space and that "tweener" DE that convert to OLB cannot do it.  I think Bertrand Berry, Cody Brown, and Will Davis will not have a problem learning coverage drops.  They will not have to cover a TE downfield in man-on-man but more as a zone coverage.  I think the bigger challenge will be learning to defend the run in space.  It is key to protect your legs and fend off blockers in space.  The Cardinals are not there with thier OLB yet, but I do think they are closer with the additions of Brown and Davis and with the departure of Travis Laboy.  Clark Haggans has fit a 3-4 OLB before and is better than Chike Okeafor but both will do well enough.  Will Davis' maturation at this position will go a long way to show Rod Graves' draft insight and what the future brings at this vital position.

Inside Linebacker:  Gerald Hayes and Karlos Dansby have been great in a 3-4.  They have size and quickness to fill the lanes and to flow in coverage.  With both being around 250, they handle themselves inside effectively.  Where I have concern is the depth at ILB.  Pago Togafau might be able to play the strong side ILB but I would like to see him add another 5-10 pounds to his 242.  He probably could pull it off if needed on the strong side but right now he fits better on the weakside ILB.  The weakside ILB can be a little lighter because he can flow more easily and fill gaps from the back side or string it out on the front side.  Ali Highsmith has added 7 pounds and is now listed at 230.  He is moving in the right direction.  However, in a 3-4 ILB even on the weak side, his size will be exposed if the offense comes with a two TE set or runs heavy fullback sets.  Highsmith seems to be a better fit for that weakside OLB  in the 4-3.  Yet Davis has said he likes a hard hitting, active ILB even if they are not the ideal size and we know he is high on Highsmith.  I am just not convinced that Highsmith currently has the size to someday replace Dansby if Karlos moves onto greener pastures next year.  Lighter ILB tend to get lost inside and for this reason I think Hobson has a greater chance to make the team than you might think.  He is 6' 0" and 254 pounds.  He can play inside, as he showed last year, and he has been playing some OLB so far this year.  Although short for a OLB he has shown versatility and that kind of versatility is valuable.  Whether he can get past the lingering doubts of his time with the Jets is yet to be seen.  I just think that HIghsmith still has an uphill road to make this team, and that Hobson is making a stronger case for himself in a 3-4.

Secondary:  For once, this is pretty obvious for the Arizona Cardinals.  They play the same whether it is a 3-4 or a 4-3.  With Rashad Johnson's arrival (who is a true center field ball-hawk safety) we now have both Antrel Rolle and Adrian Wilson who can come up into the slot and box and enable nickle and dime packages to have a lot of fexibility (not a symptom of the shift to a 3-4 but still cool!).  The more I study Rashad Johnson the more I think this may be the last year for Rolle.  This kid is a starter and fits the Cardinals' scheme much better than Rolle. Johnson was graded in the mid 2nd round on most online boards, and the Cardinals got him at the end of the 3rd!  He is a steal!

Well that is my take on the impact of a more standard 3-4 base defense on the current Cardinals roster.  What is your take?  Who will be benefited and who doesn't fit if the Cards decide to play a more traditional 3-4 base this year?     

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Revenge of the Birds' (ROTB) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of ROTB's editors.

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Good analysis

I think pretty much everything you said about our personnel is accurate. The biggest key, like you noted, is getting Branch to play to his potential and for Watson to stay healthy. I don’t think Dockett would be hurt by the scheme because most tackles who are able to create a pass rush from the interior tend to do extremely well when they have the flexibility to move around the line. The biggest if, as it applies right now is how well will guys like Cody Brown and Will Davis adjust to their “new” positions. There will be a significant learning curve for both, especially at this level. If they adjust to it pretty quickly then I think we’ll have the outside pass rush that has been sorely missing for awhile now.

by Long Beach on May 9, 2009 11:39 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

sc464

I cant help but wonder with all the penalties and moaning that Dockett does if the team is satisfied with Iwebema this year they trade Dockett next year…

Never do card tricks for the group you play poker with.

by sc464 on May 9, 2009 1:52 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Give Highsmith another 10-12 lbs...

and he’ll be a monster in the middle. He is super hyper already and is always near the ball. With a little more size, he’ll be able to go up against that center with a little more umph. I think his coverage is great as well. I was actually quietky wondering if he would be better served learning the SS postion. He’s got the size/coverage skills for it. He is a big play backer.

by hevchv on May 9, 2009 8:30 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

he's probably not fast enough

remember he dropped in the draft last year b/c he ran a 4.9 at the combine and even though he improved to something in the 4.7 range at his pro day, most of his detractors didn’t think he had the athleticism to play (especailly if he added the weight to play LB). Maybe he could drop 10 or so pounds and be quick enough be we seem to have alot more depth at safety than LB.

by Bezekira on May 11, 2009 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point.

I forgot about his 40 times.

by hevchv on May 11, 2009 4:28 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coaching Change May be Biggest Challenge. (Or not).

One of Clancy Pendergast’s most unsung skills was having the flexibility to tailor his defense to the personnel he was given. We don’t know yet whether Billy Davis will keep this ’alter the system to fit the player" approach to more of a “find the player to fit the system.” My guess is that the Cards will continue to be flexible, while adding more and more players who project well to the traditional 3-4.

I’m not sure I agree about Dockett. Although most 3- 4 DC’s like their front three to be staffed by guys weighting at or near 300 lbs, all three of them don’t have to be nose tackles.

Campbell, with an offseason under John Lott figures to weigh in the low 290’s. Dockett figures to be somewhere in the 290 – 300 lb range, which is fine. Watson backed up by Branch (with Robinson the front runner to challenge Branch) are fine at NT. At 315 lbs, Leisle figures to be in the NT mix as well.

On the outside, Campbell and Dockett figure to be backed up by Dykes and Banks (Iwebema, at 270, has tweener written all over him unless Davis likes him for special 4-3 packages or he somehow either adds enough weight to play outside or loses enough to make a run at OLB).

I just can’t figure Highsmith having enough sand in his pants to play inside, except maybe on passing downs. He may not have ideal height to come off either edge, but I think he’s more likely to fit in on the outside.

One slightly OT question – Ron Wolfley observed on Cardinal Underground that he felt that Davis’s plans – to change from a “weakside/strong side” defensive scheme to a “left-side/right side” look – would simplify our defensive personnel’s ability to diagnose offensive plays. Why would this be so? (I’d think that a LOLB in a left-side/right side set up would have twice as many plays to diagnose than if he was a SAM backer always opposite the TE).

CHICKEN LITTLE WAS RIGHT!

by JJeff88 on May 10, 2009 7:47 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree that Highsmith is a challenge. He clearly is talented but his size is a liability. Unclear if his talent is enough to offset his size. Don’t see him moving to SS. Dockett is light for a 3-4 at 6’4" 285 but he is active. (Iwebema is 6’4" 280 so about the same size as Dockett.) I think that Dockett is athletic enought that he will not be a liability at DE. My main concern with Dockett is that in a 3-4 the DE is not flashy and I think he might chaff in that role. I do not think Robinson is stout enough to play NT in a true 3-4. He has passed this past year but he functioned as a DT in a 4-3 more than a true 3-4 NT. He was brought in as a DE and that is his natural position. Don’t see Leisle as making the team. He hasn’t been successful elsewhere and he isn’t quite big enough for a true NT. If the Cards keep 7 DL I see Dockett, Campbell, Watson, Robinson, Branch, and Dykes (6’3" 305) making the team. (If they keep only 6 then I think Dykes is the odd man out.)

As for why the non-switching OLB would make for easier reads on the offense… I am not sure. You could email Wolfley and see if you get a response. He will respond sometimes. To me the upside of not switching is that it makes it harder on the Offense to read the defense. Perhaps that makes the reads and keys simpler for the defense… if you find out anything more make sure to post it.

MBN

by mbn on May 10, 2009 7:57 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

3-4 DE and Dockett

that’s a good point about Dockett maybe becoming frustrated with his role as a 3-4 DE. Anywhere on the line in a 3-4 is an unglamorous position who’s primary responsibility is to occupy as many blockers as possible so that the linebackers can make plays. It’ll be interesting to see how he handles that new role.

by Bezekira on May 11, 2009 6:40 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it’s more about keeping you on one side and not having to worry about where to go. You’re on the left, you stay there. I think it’s more about simplifying. The strong side/weak side thing doesn’t seem to make as much difference in a 3-4. For Tampa 2 style it does, but that’s a 4-3.

by KDean75 on May 11, 2009 9:06 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dockett's Psyche

It’s not as if Dockett is Lawrence Taylor.

In a best-case scenario, Darnell’s a 4-3 under tackle who can (every third play or so) cause disruption in the backfield.

But whether he plays inside in the 4-3 or either of the two DE spots in a 3-4, he’ll still have specific responsibilities that will vary according to down, distance, offensive formation, defensive or scheme etc.

My guess is that, while he may have different duties outside (i.e. outside contain, different pass rush lanes etc.) he will have roughly the same number of opportunities to wreak havoc or build up his stats as he would playing inside (just different opportunities).

And I’d guess that the toll on Darnell’s body might be a little less playing wider than it would be stuck in the trenches inside.

CHICKEN LITTLE WAS RIGHT!

by JJeff88 on May 11, 2009 7:58 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

The key difference in a 3-4, in my mind, is that Dockett will be asked to crash down, or play gap more in clear passing situations. They may ask him to work the inside shoulder of the tackle and allow the OLB to run the arc. I am sure he runs that stunt from time to time already but it seems to be the norm in a 3-4.

MBN

by mbn on May 11, 2009 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great write up mbn

This was an interesting look at the defense.

To me the biggest stories coming up in camp and preseason are centered around the front three and the OLB positions. There are a lot of questions about Branch, Highsmith, and CC that need to be answered, as well as the rookies and their transition.

Of course there could be some shake ups on the OL, and that would be very interesting.

by CardsFan08 on May 11, 2009 10:10 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

well done

I’ve gotta say the starting front seven looks pretty solid, although I’m not completely sold on Haggans and Okeafor but they’ll be adequate at worst. The depth though is down right scary, especially at every single linebacker spot. If Dansby or Hayes go down, this defense might just fold like a cheap tent. I really like Highsmith but he’s not ready to be a starter and the rest of those guys are total spares. I really hope we pick up a veteran ILB sometime before the start of the season (maybe a training camp cut by another team). We’re slightly better at OLB but the thought of a rookie trying to learn the whole position on the job isn’t exactly promising.

Also a thought on Highsmith, isn’t he kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place because as a special teams player, he needs to be as fast and quick as possible so putting on weight would most likely slow him down, but in order to ever be a factor on defense he needs to add at least 10 more pounds if not 15. His athleticism was never his strong suit so adding some significant weight could really hurt his speed and quickness.

by Bezekira on May 11, 2009 12:18 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Highsmith and Depth

He is in a bind. Not sure what the answer is. Lighter ILB do exist in the league but they have an obvious disadvantage. For someone like Highsmith to be successful I think he will need 3 beasts ahead of him and right now that is not how I would describe the Cards front 3. As for depth, Hobson has size and experience. I reread Hawks Mar 8th posting on Hobson. He was a starter with the Jets when they ran a 4-3 but then had a hard time adjusting to OLB in Mangini’s 3-4 because he lacked pass rush skills. He tried ILB for a little while but by then the luster had worn off and he seemed to have disappeared. New England gave him a shot but he was cut. If he could revive his career he could become a solid ILB (253lb) and bring some depth but time will have to judge if he can. I was hoping the Cards would pick up depth in the draft but they passed and went for Toler instead. I think I would have preferred them to have taken a Jasper Brinkley instead of a corner and looked to corner next draft. (Although Toler did save them some money in salary cap over Hood and he does appear to have a bright future in the NFL). Then again I don’t get paid to make these decisions and don’t lose my job if they fail.

MBN

by mbn on May 11, 2009 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hobson

Yea I was wondering where they’d play him but at the mini-camp he was lining up at OLB. Granted one weekend’s worth of practices may not mean a thing and I guess ideally he’d try to learn all four LB spots. He’s probably marginal at any spot but great at none.

by Bezekira on May 11, 2009 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

For the past 3 years the interior tackle play and inside linebacker play has been the weak spot on defense.Many ,many times teams have run the ball up the gut on our defense.I dont see how going to a 3-4 defense is going to help stop that weakness.If I were an opposing offensive coordinator ,I would pound the ball up the middle on the Cards and then make the Cards committ 8 players in the box and then play action them all day long.However a 3-4 hybrid with alternating zone blitz packages with pressure coming from the inside as well as the outside would keep the opposing offensive line off-balance.Maybe we could have a Defense that resembles the champs,Go Cards.

by RowdyReno on May 13, 2009 9:52 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

great analysis on the 3-4

(as a bama fan i am intimately familiar with it and all it’s glory)…

it’s the future of defense as spread techniques are going to invariably find their way into more and more offenses. The issue, like MBN pointed out, is getting the right personel in place to run that system. DRC is perfect for it (CB’s focus more on coverage than run support) and this next group of linebackers in the 2010 draft class should have plenty of candidates as well. i’m thinkin brandon spike and rolando mcclain, perfect M/ILB’s… the “jack” OLB is a tough spot to fill. we’ll have to keep our eyes open for fast DE’s who can switch….

welcome to the SEC kiffykins...

by tempebamafan on May 13, 2009 11:08 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Selvie from USF is a guy to keep an eye on

Some were talking about him as a first round pick early last season after leading the nation in tackles for loss (31.5!!) and adding 14.5 sacks but he fell off quite a bit in 2008. He totaled just 13.5 tackles for loss and 5.5 sacks so he decided not to come out, but if he can register somewhere in between his 2007 and 2008 seasons he’ll be a hot commodity. It’ll be hard to catch a USF game for those not in the Eastern time zone but the 6’4 245 pound end is worth a watch if you see it on TV.

by Bezekira on May 13, 2009 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are different 3-4’s with different responsibilities.
For a while, I know Dallas (boo) ran a 3-4 and they had gap assignments on the line, depending on the play.

Because Dockett is has exceptional penetration (due to a hyper-fast first step off the line) he can be great in pass rushing, but I think that just because that’s a strength doesn’t mean his control could be a weakness. We’ll need to see more of it to be sure. I think the biggest thing the team can do is have a high rotation to keep him fresh.

I’m rooting for Kenny, and hope he can get healthy enough to play this season. He was a terrific rusher his junior year in college and working with his old college coach is a good thing. He just needs to get his legs and chest back after a pretty serious surgery.

As always, quality stuff for a good discussion. Keep it up!

by superpsck on Jul 22, 2009 9:07 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

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