Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Carmelo Anthony, Amar'e Stoudemire Vow To Fit In With Lin

NFC West Position-by-Position: Offensive Guards

We're still plowing through our weekly installments of position by position breakdowns of the NFC West (check out previous stories here) and today we finish our look at the big uglies. The Arizona Cardinals guards will finish up the offensive line and, as with the tackles, the starters are returning at guard and the depth behind them is, quite possibility, just as talented. How do they measure up against the rest of the NFC West though?

Arizona Cardinals

The Cardinals guards have the advantage of being dependable, experienced starters but the combo of Reggie Wells and Deuce Lutui don't exactly inspire a ton of confidence in the franchise's fans. Left guard Reggie Wells, quite possibility the best sixth round pick in franchise history, has started 74 games (including 48 consecutive) since being drafted in 2003 and is the type of player who does quite a bit of things well but doesn't excel in any area. Right guard Deuce Lutui, a second round pick from 2006, has been one of the more frustrating players to watch in recent years. He's started 40 games since being drafted but so far his reputation for picking up false starts and personal foul penalties far exceeds his instances of quality play. He improved during the second half of the 2008 season but if one of the 'starting five' from last year doesn't return to the starting lineup this season, it'll very likely be Lutui.

Providing depth at the guard position is a host of characters including Brandon Keith, Elton Brown, Herman Johnson and Trevor Canfield. Keith was drafted as a tackle and most expect him to end up outside eventually but he's been working behind Lutui this off season. The conspiracy theory, championed by yours truly, is that the coaching staff is hoping that Keith will take the starting job from Lutui this year before moving to one of the tackle spots in 2010. Keith, last year's seventh round pick, has drawn raves reviews since being drafted and he's got the size, strength and quickness to provide an upgrade at the position. Elton Brown has been the Cardinals top backup on the inside for several seasons and after getting no interest on the free agent market, he's back on a one year deal. Brown has competed with Lutui at right guard for two straight seasons and he has quite a few fans who think he could be just as effective, if not more, than Lutui. Herman Johnson, this year's fifth round pick, is currently working at right tackle after spending nearly his entire college career at guard. He might stay at tackle this season but if injuries strike and he's needed, I'm sure he'd slide down. Trevor Canfield, this year's seventh round pick, is primarily a guard, although he might see some time at center as well. The deck is stacked against him based on the amount of experienced depth ahead of him but some scouts had a third or fourth round grade on him coming out of Cincinnati.

Overall this group has a ton of depth and would be able to withstand one or even two significant injuries, but they don't have any one guy who stands above the rest as a really good player. Based on the starters I'd lean towards a C but when I consider all of the depth, I feel like they are much closer to a B.

Star-divide

San Francisco 49ers - Niners Nation

Although it's probably too soon to tell, the 49ers seem to be developing a solid pair of guards. In 2008 the team selected Chilo Rachal in the second round. After sitting on the bench during the tail end of the Mike Nolan era, Rachal was promoted into the starting lineup by newly minted head coach Mike Singletary. Singletary had been impressed with Rachal in practice and decided to throw him into the fire. Rachal had plenty of problems as a rookie, but he showed enough talent to secure a starting position in 2009, barring injury.

On the other side of the line, Dave Baas has also likely secured a starting spot for 2009. The former second round pick was on the bench behind Adam Snyder, but was promoted following the firing of Mike Nolan. Baas finished the season at left guard, while Snyder moved back over to his traditional tackle role. Snyder is likely going to battle Marvel Smith for playing time as a tackle this season. However, he can easily swing over to guard if there are any injury issues. Looking ahead, he might even get another crack to start at guard after this season. Baas is a free agent and 49ers GM Scot McCloughan has made it known that he is not a fan of investing large dollar figures in starting guards (see Smiley, Justin). However, for 2009, a healthy 49ers team would seem to be set at guard.

The 49ers have some undrafted free agents in camp, but in reality the only other backup option is Tony Wragge. Wragge is an all purpose backup who can play both center and guard. He won't win a job in training camp, but will provide solid support as a backup.

Overall, I'm going to go out on a limb and give the guards a B. Why higher than the tackles and first round talent Staley? Well, a lot of this depends on how Chilo Rachal continues to develop in his second season and I'm feeling quite optimistic about it. Baas will likely be starting from the get go meaning the line will have sufficient time to develop some solid chemistry, which is big for them. Consider this like the tackle position only rounding up from B-/C+ territory. Grade: B

St. Louis Rams - Turf Show Times

Starting at left guard for the Rams is 2008's big free agent acquisition, Jacob Bell. Signed away from the Titans, Bell dealt with a hamstring injury and watched his play fade down the stretch, to the point where when combined with the Rams' undersized centers Nick Leckey and Brett Romberg the middle of the line became a real liability. Part of the problem was that Bell played at 280 lbs last season, well below his listed weight of 296 lbs. Whether that was due to the hamstring injury or poor choices in an offseason conditioning program is irrelevant now, and the team was most relieved when Bell showed up for spring minicamps at 300 lbs, thanks to the addition of a personal chef. We should all be so lucky. Bell had a solid track record with the Titans, and will benefit greatly with the addition of C Jason Brown to his right.

On the right side is Richie Incognito, who earned a reputation as a bit of meat head last year thanks to some unpopular comments and gestures directed toward Rams fans...or the lack thereof. Meathead or not, Incognito is one of the nastiest players in the game and a tough blocker. He came apart mentally last year, racking up more than his share of dumb, costly penalties as his attitude unraveled along with the team's play. The coaching change should really benefit a talented Incognito, who constantly needs a hot burning fire under his posterior. He is, arguably, the Rams best lineman.

Behind those two, the Rams have some solid depth at G. John Greco, a third round pick from the 2008 draft, did nothing to hurt his standing with the team in nine appearances last year. Greco uses his size and athleticism well, but could stand to play a little tougher. Mark Setterstrom returns this season after having missed the entire 2008 season with a knee injury. Setterstrom was pressed into starting duty late in 2006, and played well enough to earn a starting job out of camp the next year before getting hurt in week 3. Prior to the 2008 season, he was expected to compete for the starting center job before a camp injury ended his season before it began. He's reportedly at 100%, but his injury history is a huge concern. Greco and Setterstrom are the primary backups at G, and the team is very happy to have them should injury again befall the middle of the offensive line. There's also the versatile Adam Goldberg (see our OT write up), who has filled in nicely at times on the left and right over the last few seasons.

The Rams also helped themselves by signing a couple of very interesting guard prospects among this year's crop of undrafted rookie free agents. Many were surprised when Western Missouri G Roger Allen was not drafted this year. An injury that prevented him from working out at the Combine, a rare invite in the first place for a Missouri Western State player, likely contributed to that. All Mountain West Conference guard Ray Feinga, from BYU, will also be competing for a spot on the depth chart, and has looked good in the no-pad practices of spring. Hopefully, these guys give the Rams that nice to have problem of too much of a good thing.

All in all, I give the Rams a B at guard. If Bell can play to expectations, this could be one really good unit.

Seattle Seahawks - Field Gulls

Seattle has no starting guards. It instead has the field. Let's twitterize them.

Mike Wahle: Once good and can still run block, but bad in pass-pro and broken down. Shoulder might fall off.

Rob Sims: Pec goes pop, Seahawks flop, this semi-promising guard fails to develop. Good pass-block, bad feet.

Mansfield Wrotto: Mean ass brother used to play DT and blocks like it. Tech coming, but until then: Smash.

Steve Vallos: Upside: Tom Ashworth.

Ray Willis: More valuable at tackle, but beggars can't be choosers.

Max Unger: Oh please God yes.

The best combination for Seattle would be Sims at right and Unger at left, with Willis filling in where necessary. Unger isn't very strong at the point, but he's extremely skilled and employs that skill to be viciously opportunistic. He times his blocks well to upend unbalanced opponents and for someone that rarely looked strong in pass pro, he gets a good number of knockdown blocks. He is, simply, good at football. He's also a pretty good athlete and should take well to Seattle's zone system. Sims may or may not. He had a nasty habit of tripping over his own feet in 2007. That earned the ire of Mike Holmgren and helped earn him a bad reputation among fans. He's very good in pass protection and at right guard maybe won't need to be terribly agile. He could also develop, because he's young, but boy could he have used last season, because on the move he's raw, raw, raw.

It's a less than the sum of its parts bunch, because there's very little stability and each has some fatal flaw that could prove their professional doom. Still, it's a talented bunch, with better, deeper talent than you'll find on many rosters, and that alone keeps this from being an "F". I'll grade them "D" knowing they could gel and be better, or they could flunk in shifts, giving Seattle a revolving door of failure the holiday season through.

The rankings were relatively easy with the only contention being the middle two slots. In the end we practically flipped a coin so consider the second and third teams in the rankings nearly interchangeable.

  1. St. Louis Rams
  2. Arizona Cardinals
  3. San Francisco 49ers
  4. Seattle Seahawks

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall every team sounds like they have their own question marks and only the Rams are truly set at starter. How would you rank the Cardinals and do you agree that Keith could take the starting job from Lutui? Would that change your opinion of the position grade?

Comment 12 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

good article

I’m excited about all the new options and depth on the O-line. Herman and Trevor were both draft picks I was very happy about.

by CardsDefense on Jun 26, 2009 11:21 AM MDT reply actions  

Can football just please start already?

Never do card tricks for the group you play poker with.

by sc464 on Jun 26, 2009 12:11 PM MDT reply actions  

+1

A man from Dallas who bleeds red, not silver and blue.

by Sir Whirly on Jun 26, 2009 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

four starters but no really good starters

It seems like we have four guys who are capable of starting (Wells, Lutui, Brown and Keith) but I don’t see any of them being really good. Kind of like we have several 5’s or 6’s but no 8’s or 9’s (scale of 1 to 10). Keith has the potential to be really good but it’s unlikely that he’s a significant upgrade over Lutui in his first year as a starter.

I’ll agree that I hope Keith gets the job though just b/c I think it’ll be a stepping stone to a OT job next year.

by Bezekira on Jun 26, 2009 2:10 PM MDT reply actions  

I have never really understood why

people like to “easy someone in at tackle” by starting them off at guard. Why waste time having him learn a new position? Why not let him in at tackle during blowouts or for a series every game (besides you can give the starting tackle a quick breather late in the game)? I think if you want him to play tackle then put him at tackle. Dont screw around.

Never do card tricks for the group you play poker with.

by sc464 on Jun 26, 2009 4:01 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think in this case, the thinking is that Keith would be an upgrade (or at least not a downgrade) over Lutui at RG. Next year, when Gandy’s contract is up, Keith would be able to move to his more natural position and we wouldn’t have to spend to retain Gandy (and/or Brown, not sure about his contract). Also at that time, House or any of the other guys could take over G full-time, with Lutui presumably being phased out of the lineup permanently.

I’m not especially attached to any of the starters. What with our miserable run-attack and Warner stumbling off of the LoS once or twice a game because Sendlein stepped on him, I’m crossing my fingers for a change-up somewhere (or, at the very least, some promising development).

Generally I agree with you (along the same principle lines as why did we draft two DE’s to convert to OLB’s instead of two OLB’s). I don’t remember — what did they do with Levi Brown?

by tw3kr on Jun 26, 2009 5:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

Pass rush ability

The idea behind taking Brown and Davis and converting them to a new position is that neither is physically big enough to play DE at the pro level but in college they demonstrated an ability to rush the passer, which is paramount for the 3-4 we want to convert to. If they can transition to the new position it makes them very versatile, because then they’ll be able to drop into coverage, blitz without giving away that they’re blitzing, etc. The reason they don’t draft a college OLB is they typically haven’t show the same ability to rush the passer, and if it wasn’t a natural skill for them in college it’s really unlikely they’ll suddenly develop it at the NFL level.

I think you’re being a little hard on our current offensive line, because all-in-all they were very respectable last year. We’ve had this debate a lot prior to your arrival here, but those of us who are Sendlein fans can’t recall all this time he supposedly spent on Warner’s feet, and granted our run game was weak but once we had a TE (Spach) who came in and did a respectable job of sealing the DE off we were able to spring our RB’s outside to keep the defense honest. Plus, the offense couldn’t have thrown for all those yards if we had a bad OL. Give Grimm another year with these guys and I think they’ll be an above average unit this year.

by Long Beach on Jun 26, 2009 6:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

Aah, making some sense. College OLBs are generally more concerned with coverage & run-stopping, making them a better fit for 4-3 then?

There were a couple games where it happened more than once, though probably not every game (didn’t get to see all of them, obviously). There was even some extra commentary and a replay, specifically of the foot-stepping. I don’t remember any kind of disaster ensuing, luckily. Getting pushed back so quickly probably had something to do with Sendlein’s injury but it sure looked sloppy.

Don’t read too much into two sentences. I had typed up my reasoning but you sound like you know the up’s and down’s. It’s not like I think we’re in a terrible position, but we’re not exactly the envy of the league, either. You can spend all the time arguing for or against a certain player that you want. It’s moot. The fact is, we still have room to improve, either by player progression or by switching up the starting 5. Since it looks like we’re sticking with the same crew, I have to believe everyone is coming along.

by tw3kr on Jun 27, 2009 12:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

Reply

No doubt there’s room for improvement, when you’re as one dimensional as we were last year it’s obvious that we need to balance out our run/pass effectiveness if we want to continue to be a legit Super Bowl contender. The point I’m getting at is the improvement in our OL has been significant since the arrival of Whiz/Grimm, and I only expect that to continue this season. A lot our our offensive is still very young (particularly the right side) so it stands to reason that they’re still getting better.

As a general rule, yes, a college OLB is generally a much better fit in the 4-3 for all the reasons you mentioned. The only OLB that comes to my mind that was rated highly for his pass rushing ability in the recent NFL draft was Clint Sintim out of Virginia, and Virginia runs the 3-4 (Al Groh, a Parcells associate, is the head coach there) so he probably would have been a great fit but I believe the NYG picked him in the second round before our selection. Not that I’m saying we would have taken him ahead of Cody Brown but it would have been interesting to see which player we would have gone with in that scenario. Otherwise, I can’t come up with a listed OLB that was known for their pass rush ability.

by Long Beach on Jun 27, 2009 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

college DE vs. NFL OLB

The practice of drafting undersized college DE’s and moving them to OLB in the NFL 3-4 is very common practice. The reason that NFL teams have to do is two-fold. First, very few college teams run a 3-4 (Virginia is the only major school that comes to mind) so you can’t just draft a 3-4 OLB. Normally defensive ends who specialize in rushing the passer are targeted since rushing the passer is the first and foremost job of any 3-4 OLB. Second, you can’t just focus on 4-3 OLB’s because the responsibilities and skill set required to play the position are completely different.

by Bezekira on Jun 29, 2009 6:23 AM MDT up reply actions  

Adjustment period

The reason for starting most rookies at Guard, especially if the team is uncertain as to where they’ll play, is there is more margin for error at Guard and it gives them a chance to see what it’s like to block NFL defensive lineman without getting the QB killed. Putting somebody at Tackle before they’re ready, and having them going one-on-one with someone like Harrison, Peppers, Abraham, etc., could ruin their confidence. There is a little more safety with RT (on most teams) because that’s usually where the TE lines up but regardless tackle is a much tougher position to play. Hence, if you put someone on the inside, let them see what it’s like at the NFL level, build their confidence, then if they’re suited for it move them to Tackle.

Very few players can step in out of college and man those positions (i.e. – Boselli, Ogden, Pace, Clady, Thomas Etc.) as rookies.

by Long Beach on Jun 26, 2009 6:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

+1

That’s pretty much what I was thinking. Having Keith start a year at RG before sliding out the LT next year would just give him a year of preparing as a starter, facing NFL competition and it’s a safer way for the coaching staff to see if can handle the job.

If Keith is anywhere close to Lutui in camp, I hope they make the switch.

by Bezekira on Jun 29, 2009 6:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Arizona Cardinals blog for SB Nation network. Covering the Arizona Cardinals 24/7. Be a Redbird watcher with us, but please follow our community guidelines

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Some Clarity On Peyton Manning's Injury

Recent FanPosts

Fire_cardinal_small
Interesting article about the possible death of the NFL
Small
More Clarity on Peyton's Injury
100_0035_small
RotB Playoff Pick'em: Super Winner
Small
News Update: Todd Haley!
Awilson_small
Contests - prizes to be won!!!
Small
My Top 5: 1st rd draft prospects, Series 4
Logo_small
Don't Touch The Defense (cept resign CC)
Small
Five Things the Cardinals Can Learn From Chris Ogbonnaya
Small
The ultimate FA target: Mario Williams

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Contact ROTB

Here at RotB we're always looking for new contributors or anyone just willing to give their feedback. If you'd like to become a contributor, create your own weekly segments, or just have a question or concern, contact me at jess@sbnation.com.

Arizona Birdgang Podcast -- Click below to listen to any episode you want!


Head Coach

Jess_root_small Jess Root

My_boy_larry_small Tyler Nickel

Coordinators

Fire_cardinal_small CardsFan08

Jack-bauer_small JoeCB1991

Assistant Coaches

577d914870be748ea886865adfe932ca_small Jesse Reynolds

Arizona_phoenix_bird_small Skii

Kiwiavatar_small khodder

Small cdeveau

Izzy_reasonably_small_small GreaZzy

Rotb_small Mario Ortiz

Ukulele_small Joe Zuppa

Index_small Alex Mann