Are the Baltimore Ravens Back in the Running for Anquan Boldin?
by Hawkwind on Jul 14, 2009 8:14 AM MDT
in General Arizona Cardinals News
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I know that we are all burnt out on Anquan Boldin trade talks but with the news of Derrick Mason 's retirement, there is some speculation (here, here and here) that the Baltimore Ravens are in dire need of a top flight wide receiver. As you might expect, any talk of 'top flight receivers' at this point will include Boldin, Brandon Marshall and Braylon Edwards. The problem with any of speculation is that the Ravens already inquired about Boldin before the draft and they weren't willing to meet, or even approach, the Arizona Cardinals demands so what has changed?
Well for starters the Ravens might be desperate now. Without Mason leading their receiving corps, the Ravens face the possibility of starting a season with two receivers (Mark Clayton and Demetrius Williams) who, in seven combined seasons, have zero 1,000 yard seasons and 13 total TDs. So is Anquan Boldin a realistic target for the Ravens?
The level of the Ravens desperation is the key here. How much are they willing to give up in order to give their young QB a reliable target? They weren't ready trade a first and third rounder for Boldin when Mason was in the fold but that might have changed now. But would the Cardinals essentially trade the present for the future?
The Red Birds are in a 'win now' mode with Kurt Warner at the helm and trading a receiver like Boldin for picks that will help the 2010 team wouldn't seem to make sense, but we can't see the entire picture. For instance, we don't have any idea how much confidence the coaching staff has in guys like Jerheme Urban or Early Doucet and their ability to become much larger contributors. With five picks in the first 100 next April (assuming a first and third round pick in a trade), the Cardinals would be able to infuse this roster with quite a bit of young talent and would allow them to be quite flexible in terms of trades.
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In the end, we all know that trading Boldin before the season is a long shot, at best, if not compeletely out of the question. Boldin is a valuable member of this team both on the field and in the locker room, but as the saying goes "everything is for sale at the right price." With a team like the Ravens who are also trying win right now, I wouldn't be surprised if Rod Graves phone was already ringing. First, would you trade Boldin right now for any price? Would you're asking price be higher considering that the picks won't help this team? And finally, how tired are you of Boldin trade talks?
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I doubt the Cards would trade him at this point before the season.
If the Ravens don’t find a replacement by next offseason I could see the Cards listening to their offers but right now it would be stupid to trade him.
+1 No trade in '09
I completely agree but as a GM if the carrot on the stick is dangling in front of you is saying “5 picks in the first 100 could solve a lot of issues in an aging LB corps”.
Depending on the offer the FO may be willing to talk.
+0.5
Love Q, but have advocated trading him at various times in the past. If a deal really isn’t going to get done, and only management knows that, then aren’t we going to be in a fairly obvious desperation trade scenario next year. That would lower our return. I still believe we should expect nothing less than a 1st and 3rd a la Dallas/Detroit last year. Plus, he’d be going to an AFC team.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome again. True story.
-Barney Stinson
Good reasoning and I didn’t think of how bad his value drops when we’re in the desperate to get rid of him category.
This year I think we’d be able to get a 1st and 3rd out of Baltimore due to their predicament.
It's just like in baseball.
If you are an obvious “seller” in a given season, then it is better to sell well before the trade deadline. More teams will still consider themselves buyers and be creating competition in the market for your services. Just like CC Sabathia last year.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome again. True story.
-Barney Stinson
I wouldn't rule it out completely
however they would have to offer a whole lot to make it worth it. I just don’t see John Harbaugh as that kind of coach. I bet they will sign an unemployed veteran like Amani Toomer, Marvin Harrison, etc.
Burned Out
I think we’re all pretty burned out on Boldin trade talks, and I don’t think he’s going anywhere. If anything, it seems like he’s closer to a new deal with us than at this time last year since Wilson has signed, and it seems clear than Dansby won’t. Granted, the latter hurts him since his cap number works against it but by my count Boldin should be the next in line.
What I tend to wonder about more is how long will it take teams to start inquiring about a guy like Doucet, who seems too skilled to not be at least a #3 with regular playing time. Not that I’m saying I would move him because I think he’s a diamond in the rough, but if I’m Ozzie Newsome I’d be asking.
Why would you move Doucet...
…when it is no sure thing that we re-sign or keep Q? It seems that there is still the possibility that we start 2010 with Fitz, Breaston and Early as our 1, 2, 3. Especially if we keep Q and not re-sign him, then you would have to use a pick on a new WR in 2011. A pick that would be better suited for the OL, Defensive side or QB (by that time.)
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome again. True story.
-Barney Stinson
Misread?
You may have misread what I was saying. I wouldn’t move Doucet as I think he’s potentially one of our brightest young stars. I’m saying that if I was a GM for a team with a need at WR I’d be more inclined to check on his status than on Boldin’s because if I could sucker him out of our grasp I’d be getting a potentially younger version of Boldin with virtually no tread on his tires and a salary cap number that is probably next to nothing.
Partial misread
I was responding to you the specific person but the “you” I referred to in the post was in the general form. More like just advocating why I would hold on to Early right now. I did get the wrong gist from your post but after re-reading it I understand and agree with what you are getting at.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome again. True story.
-Barney Stinson
They get what they deserve this season for being cheap bastards before the draft.
I’m surprised Harrison hasn’t been picked up yet considering some piss poor receiving corps around the league such as the Ravens, Giants, etc. And at this point in the offseason, I know this would never happen but if I’m the Cardinals I’m not taking anything short of T-Suggs for Q =) any other deal (not that I think one will happen) I would be disappointed and saddened by the organization, Q is too important to our team. Especially when you take into account Leinart taking over in the near future 1-3 years? he needs guys like Q to throw to.
Agreed on the T-Suggs part.
Don’t agree with the Giants having a bad receiving corps. Even though Hakeem Nicks is a rookie he should be a good target. While they also have Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, and the very underrated Domenik Hixon. They may lack a star receiver but they have a more than capable receivers corps.
yeah I shouldn't say piss poor
Kevin Boss is a formidable threat on offense along with some of those decent/scrap heap wide receivers you mentioned. They could really use another addition though, I’m not sure Eli is good enough to work with what they have right now though as far as making it far into the season/post-season, especially since Ward is with the Suckanears now.
The Ravens have a 2nd-year QB who just lost the man who accounted for over a third of his total production from last year. We have incredible WR depth all the way through to the practice squad. Despite this, the only way a trade would make sense for us is if Boldin shows signs of underperforming massively, which haven’t really surfaced (unless you count the flukey/injury-related drops + fumbles towards the end of ’08).
Think I agree w/ CardsD about them going for a Harrison or Toomer more realistically.
Boldin skipped OTAs and others got time to play so . . .
I would never rule out a trade, although I would love to see him stay. You have to remember the cards have some needs and are honestly have too many receivers. I would probably trade Boldin for Suggs and a late rounder. We lose a something at WR for a huge gain on defense where we have much more need. That deal would probably make the team better which is all that really counts. Do the Ravens have the cap space to give Boldin the deal he wants?
by Drullin'OverDaCards on Jul 14, 2009 4:01 PM MDT reply actions
I love that trade
get Doucet on the field, while giving our defense a huge boost.
But Suggs is a franchise player. Can the Cards do that trade with the cap space we have? can someone answer if this trade is even possible.
by CardsDefense on Jul 14, 2009 4:13 PM MDT up reply actions
If Boldin and Suggs are the only players involved than no.
Suggs is playing this season with a franchise tender of 10.2 million. Boldin is playing for 2.75 millions this year (at least that is the base salary, I don’t know how much of the signing bonus would be included in there, if at all). The Cards are something like 2 million under that cap right now so this trade could not go through because it would push us over the cap.
Well, ya gotta get creative
You could sign and trade or something or rework some other player’s deals, but there are always possibilities if you are creative.
by Drullin'OverDaCards on Jul 14, 2009 4:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Your going to have to get real creative for this one then.
Still have to sign Beanie Wells and Brown. Lets just say those 2 players cost 3.5 million, that means your about 1.5 mil over the cap. than you trade Boldin which brings back 1.25 mil under the cap but since you traded for Suggs that would put you back over the cap by about 8.95 mil. Since Suggs has been franchised he is just like Dansby and can’t get a new contract after July 15th so there is no negotiation between those 2 players to create cap space.
So now you have to look at other players to take less money to play here I would look in Okeafor’s(5.4 mil). Lets say he drops 2 mil so that brings the cap down to 6.95 mil.
You might be able to get Warner to give that 2 mil he said he would give for this trade, maybe but for this scenerio lets say he does. So this brings the cape down to 4.95 mil. Who else takes a hit so that Suggs can play here?
Doesn't the rookie $$ work differently though
I could be wrong, the cap is so frickin complicated
by Drullin'OverDaCards on Jul 14, 2009 5:38 PM MDT up reply actions
To complicate the situation
The hypothetical ‘sign and trade’ would have to be completed today since T-nizzle is a franchise player. If both teams really wanted to get a deal done, I’m sure it could happen, but there’s a reason why they very rarely go down in the NFL.
To get the deal done, the Cards would have to work out a very quick deal with Suggs before today’s deadline. The hitch in that deal would be that he has 2009 cap hit very similar to Q’s number and then he’d get his big payday of guaranteed money in 2010. Another complication is that Suggs would basically have veto power b/c he’d have to work out a new deal for the trade to go down so he’d almost have a no-trade clause in this situation.
I've won the same lifetime achievement award twice....yes I'm the Most Interesting Man in the World
wow, did that just set the bar for Dansby?
I've won the same lifetime achievement award twice....yes I'm the Most Interesting Man in the World
After seeing the details of the contract...
I would have to say yes it would.
Suggs will receive signing-bonus and option-bonus money that will total $33.1 million in 2009 and 2010
Which is second only to Peyton Manning.
In the first two years of the contract, Suggs will make $40 million. In the first three years, he will make $43.4 million. And in the first four years, he will make $48.3 million.
I would think Dansby would try to get more but I bet he will end up being in the neighborhood of this contract.
WTF?!?!?!? that's crazy money
I really like Dansby but ILB’s simply don’t get paid that much. Hopefully his new agent doesn’t think he can get that much.
I've won the same lifetime achievement award twice....yes I'm the Most Interesting Man in the World
Yea I was just reading on PFT...
that Suggs deal is a better deal than Haynseworth’s. Which is what I had predicted earlyer what Dansby would be trying to get in his new contract. Looks like he just got a little bit closer to it since Suggs did.
To add on, Suggs is now the highest payed LB in the league. From the comments I have seen of Dansby this was his goal. I was somewhat certain that Dansby wouldn’t return to us beyond this season and now I am almost positive he will not be back after this season.
But there is no way Dansby’s worth that much money. Suggs can make a great statement, but Dansby? Ehhh….
Also, do the Cowboys, Redskins, and Raiders know this. If Dansby gets to FA, which right now that looks like it’s going to happen, those three teams would most certainly shell out the cash to get a guy like Dansby.
+1
All the more reason that this seems like wasted conversation. We talked about this at length during the draft and if nothing happened then I don’t see what’s changed to make it happen now. Dansby not signing a new deal really hamstrings us under the cap, and squeezing another $10 million dollar deal in goes beyond creative at this point.
not too mention that Baltimore NEEDS T.Suggs
Imagine what they would look like after losing Suggs, Bart Scott, Jim Leonard, etc.
For a team that is all about Defensive dominance this scenario just would not happen
by CardsDefense on Jul 14, 2009 4:51 PM MDT up reply actions
This
isn’t going to happen in my opinion. Baltimore will use Demetrius Williams and Mark Clayton at the WR spots. We are already developing the new defense and don’t need Suggs at all. Honestly I don’t know why people keep asking for Suggs to come to Arizona. His numbers are not impressive to me and only leads a bit by getting a few more total sacks. The money to pay for somebody like him is not there and his production isn’t going to surpass many already on the team.
+0 (net)
+1 that this probably won’t happen, I merely suggested it because that’s the only trade that I see would be beneficial for BOTH teams NOW and the only one I wouldn’t be disappointed by.
-1 on T-Suggs’ production. I think he would be a great addition to the Cardinals especially considering all of the talk the site has had about our lackingness (don’t believe that’s a word) in the OLB/DE position. He’d be a major boost to the developing 3-4 alignment and he can do it all, coverage/pass-rush w/e. Plus he’s a former Sun Devil =D Course this is all hypotheticals so I’m probably wasting my time/energy typing this, but hey isn’t this what the site is all about? especially in the offseason haha.
Huh?
Has our defense gotten so good that a guy with three Pro Bowls in the past five years, an AP Rookie Defensive Player of the Year award and an average of 8.8 sacks a season wouldn’t be an improvement? You’re crazy if you don’t think Suggs would immediately become an upgraded starter and far and away the best pass rusher on the team. Oh yea and he’s only 26!
I've won the same lifetime achievement award twice....yes I'm the Most Interesting Man in the World
There are no rules
Some would say: “If the deal is good enough, strike while the iron is hot.”
Others would say: "Teams that succumb to the temptation to trade established players for draft picks build no constistency and are continuously digging their way out of the holes they’ve dug for themselves.
The only rule that matters: “Whatever you do, ‘get it right.’”
My gut says: This team was a half-minute away from winning the Super Bowl. It doesn’t need any cataclysmic roster shifts in order to contend again and possibly win it. At most, the Cardinals might need minor tweaking to compensate for a couple of player losses and to shore up a couple of areas of weakness.
All of which suggests: “Stand pat. Stick with the FSU guy who brung ya.”
GBR
by jeffgollin@aol.com on Jul 15, 2009 7:31 AM MDT reply actions
I was with ya ti;; ya mentioned FSUcks.
Life's too short. Be a fan. Magic, Cards and Rays! What a winning combo.
As much as I would love to have Boldin
I think we (Ravens) missed out on our opportunity to grab him before the draft. It would make sense for us to give you guys a 1st and 4th or 5th for Boldin, but would not make sense for you guys to accept it when you wont be able to use those picks for a whole year.
Would love to see Boldin in Purple and Black, but not gonna happen.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
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