Arizona Cardinals Pre-Training Camp Roster Projections: Nose Tackles
by Hawkwind on Jul 6, 2009 7:24 AM MDT
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PrintToday's look at the nose tackle position will conclude our look at the defensive side of the ball for the Arizona Cardinals (check out previous stories on the safeties, corner backs, inside linebackers, outside linebackers and 
defensive ends). As our luck would have it, the nose tackle spot in the only position on the defensive side of the ball in which the starter isn't set in stone given the uncertainty with Gabe Watson's knee. We all know that he had a second "clean up" surgery earlier in the off season and hopefully this surgery will allow him to play without pain (something he couldn't do last year). Outside of Watson's knee there are the other normal faces competing for roster spots and playing time but there is a new face who could push his way into the roster.
Locks
Gabe Watson, Bryan Robinson
On the Bubble
If the Cardinals had to play a game today (as much as we pray, it's just not going to happen), Bryan Robinson would probably line up at nose tackle but I suspect the team would much rather have Watson as their starter. That's not a knock on Robinson but Watson has the size and ability to be a 'true nose' while Robinson is more suited to be a stellar backup all over the defensive line. I'd imagine that Watson, who could be an unrestricted free agent next off season, will do everything in his power to be healthy and have a big season considering that he should be in line for a significant payday. As for Branch and Leisle, we'll address them after the jump but for the record, neither of them are eligible for the practice squad.
Alan Branch: Branch's status as a "bubble" guy might be debatable but there's no doubt that the team is tired of him showing up overweight and under-motivated. Conflicting reports have come out this off season with some reporting that his attendance at off season workouts have been better than in year's past while others have written that Branch still showed up weighing more than the franchise would have liked. Regardless of where Branch stands today, the guy has the potential to be a disruptive force wherever he plays but he'll have to get his head wrapped around the physical demands of being a professional football player. On a somewhat side note, there have been some rumors that the staff has tried moving Branch to the less taxing position of defensive end where his size would be an advantage. If that's true, it might be a last gasp effort to get something out of a guy that the franchise essentially used two draft picks to select.
Rodney Leisle: Leisle (6'3, 315) is a complete wild card and I wouldn't be surprised if no one reading this had ever seen him play a single down of NFL football. He hasn't played in the NFL since 2006 but he was a 5th round draft pick of the Saints in 2004. He played in 17 games over his first three seasons before being cut in the training camp of 2007. He resurfaced with the Giants during their training camp last year but a rib injury ended his season before it even got started. He spent some time in Canadian football with the Saskatchewan Roughriders during their 2008 season. At best Leisle is trying to push Branch off the roster, but I'd have to think that he'll have to significantly better to make that happen.
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The strength of his unit depends solely on the health of Gabe Watson. If he recovers fully from his knee injury, this unit is strong enough to solidify the middle of a 3-4 defense that's trying to climb into the top 10 of the NFL. If he struggles for another season and the Cardinals are forced to wade through another nose tackle by commitee season with Robinson leading the way, it's possible that the middle of this defense will continue to be a weak spot. Given the uncertainty of Watson's health, it's a virtual lock for the Cardinals to carry three (but not four) nose tackles so a Branch versus Leisle battle could heat up during the preseason. How do you feel about the depth at nose tackle? Are you confident that Watson returns to health and what confidence do you have in Branch?
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This is the make or break season for Branch.
If he doesn’t get his act together this season he could be gone. From what I have heard from Whiz and his coaching staff they are fed up with Branch coming into camp overweight and not focused.
I have read reports that he has shown more commitment and has lost some weight but at this point we need him to be fully committed and at the right size to help create some depth at a thin position right now. If he doesn’t play well this season look for the Cards to cut ties with him and go into next years draft looking for someone that is willing to play hard to win a Super Bowl, as the only thing Branch seems to want to win is a dancing title (Branch won a dancing trophy at media day before the Super Bowl).
If I were the Cards I wouldn't give him a ring even if we won.
I don’t care if that makes us look bad or if we actually have to give him a ring, I would absolutely refuse to give him one. I would even pay freaking fines and law suites if I had to just to not give him one.
Alternatively I would say to Branch, “You want your ring huh? Well play like the 1st pick in the 2nd round and you’ll get your damn ring.”
Leisle vs Branch
I have said before that if there is nothing new from Branch this camp then I don’t carry him through the season. I realize the draft picks given up for him, but if he doesn’t change, what’s the point in sticking with this guy. I am not a big Leisle fan but at this point I am willing to try him over Branch. He can’t have less of an impact the Branch has had and he is surely cheaper. Can’t see how Branch could ever beat out Dykes at the backup DE position. I say, unless he shows up big time in camp, cut your losses and dump Branch.
MBN
+1
I’m thinking that for this training camp he’s going to be looked at by the coaching staff the same way an undrafted free agent will be. If he doesn’t stand out or show very noticeable improvement in his work ethic/desire that he’ll be cut loose.
A lot of talk about Branch but what about Watson?
I mean that in a good way. I have said it before on ROTB but if Watson can play like he did the last half of ’07 and the OLB be just decent in the 3-4…. watch out.
Never do card tricks for the group you play poker with.
Best option we've got
I think if Watson can stay healthy that he’d be productive in the 3-4, he obviously more suited for it physically than Robinson is. I think our OLB’s are going to have to be better than decent if we’re going to run the 3-4 more often. That alignment will reduce Dockett’s effectiveness as a pass rusher and right now he’s really the only proven one we have so somebody is going to have to step up and play at something near an all-pro level. Being honest, our personnel doesn’t exactly scream out 3-4 success at this point.
Agreed
The DL is not an ideal 3-4 fit largely because of the NT. Watson could be but we need more than him. OLB are still a question on a 3-4 My guess is we’ll still be a hybrid defense with us trying to lean more to a 3-4 but not there yet.
MBN
by mbn on Jul 6, 2009 3:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Your opinion
Curious to see if this crossed your mind as well. In light of the fact that our personnel suits a 4-3 better at this point do you think we should have taken a look at Jarron Gilbert in the second round? I’m not knocking Cody Brown, and I understand the reasoning for going with him since we’re wanting to change to a 3-4 but I’m guessing you may have been thinking along the same lines in regards to Gilbert.
I would have looked hard at a NT
In my mind Gilbert and C. Brown are about the same grade in the draft, (late 2nd early 3rd) with Brown maybe getting a nod over Gilbert. Plus Gilbert is a DE and I am not sure he is notably better than Campbell. The problem was that there just are never that many real solid looking NT in any given draft which is probably why the Cards were willing to trade to get Branch and now seem a little gun shy. I really liked Brace 6’3" 330 (picked 40) and would have traded up to get him if I could. He is a better 3-4 NT than Raji and better than anyone else in the draft at that position in my opinion. I think Vaughn Martin 6’3" 331 (Picked 113 in 4th) has a great up side and getting him mid 4th would have required a trade and we wouldn’t have gotten Toler, but I would have considered it. Chris Baker 6’2" 326 out of Hampton was an undrafted rookie and I liked him. He is a project but I would have worked hard to get him into camp. Like you said, I am happy with who we got, but with the NT playing such a big role in the 3-4 I would have liked to have seen someone brought in.
MBN
Good points
I agree with your thoughts on getting a NT, but my thinking with Gilbert is that he could play inside at DT even though he played DE in college. With his athleticism I would have liked to have seen him next to Dockett in a 4-3.
However, I realize that we’re committed to transitioning to a 3-4 so I’m sure it was never a a consideration to take him.
Wasn’t Martin that Canadian prospect with about 1,000 question marks? I suppose Toler has some too, but if they both have similar upside, Martin would definitely be a bigger risk pick, especially he would’ve required a trade.
Body-type wise, both Dykes & Banks have B. Rob flex-potential, so I imagine that played a part in leaving Baker (and others) out of the picture.
New member here and a fan of another team. Just trying to get a little background info on Branch. Is he really that bad? Is he better suited to play in a 3-4 defense? He listed at almost 340 lbs, but I’ve read he weighs much more.
Is he really in danger of being cut?
He is not a bad player athletically, but he has shown no desire to work hard enough to bring himself to the next level. If he was in shape, studied hard and had a bit of work ethic; he would be a valuable addition to the defense.
Is he close to being cut? Maybe. Maybe he is doing just enough to stay non practice squad.
A man from Dallas who bleeds red, not silver and blue.
Speculation
The only thing I know for a fact is the coaching staff has stated that they want him to lose weight and come to camp more motivated than he’s been in the past. The thing with Whisenhunt is if he says it publicly it’s usually “put up or shut up” time so that’s why I’m thinking that he’s on thin ice right now, especially since there are reports stating that he isn’t in the kind of shape they want him to be in. I believe they want him to be around 325.
It’s hard to say what defense he’d be better suited for, since we really haven’t seen much of anything from him so far. He’s got the size and athleticism to be an ideal 3-4 nosetackle but from a production standpoint I wouldn’t feel too comfortable with the idea that he’ll occupy a couple of lineman on his own. In the 4-3, especially next to Dockett he could probably be hidden for awhile but that’s not exactly what you’re looking for in a starter (or a backup for that matter).
Bottom line, he’s been a bust since his arrival. What makes it especially painful to watch is we moved up to get him in round 2, and the reports were that he fell out of the first round because of motivation issues. The athleticism is there, but apparently the desire isn’t and at this stage of his career it’s hard to see that changing.
Here in Denver, we have a player (Jarvis Moss) that is slowly garnering the “bust” label. Difference being he’s not lazy or overweight. His problem has been a lack of coaching and he doesn’t fit our new scheme IMO. With our switch to 3-4, he is too small (weight & strengthwise) to play DE. Not sure if he, at 6’-6" 250lbs, can make the switch to 3-4 OLB.
He’s currently trying to make the switch, but was running 3rd string during our OTA’s. We’ll know more once they finally put the pads on.
What’s even more disappointing is we also gave up several picks to move up in the first round of the 2007 draft to get him.
Anyway, ,my original intent for asking about Branch was to speculate on the possibility of our teams making a trade. After reading the comments from those who replied, speculating on a trade for Branch no longer makes any sense, as the possibility exists that AZ might just cut their losses and release him.
Branch for Jarvis Moss?
I’d be very interested in that offer.
His size is listed at 6’6 265 on NFL.com and that’s the perfect size for a 3-4 OLB. I think I’d make that trade in a heart beat.
I've won the same lifetime achievement award twice....yes I'm the Most Interesting Man in the World
His weight is actually closer to 245-250. He has trouble gaining and maintaining weight. Our need on the DL is for a true NT that can hold the point and also penetrate. Coming out of college, Branch was supposed to have those abilities. Moss’ stong suit coming out of college was bringing heat off the edge.
At present, neither has met expectations. I was thinking a change of scenery might be good for both. After hearing that Branch is overweight and non motivated, speculation on a possible swap makes no sense. I still think Moss is salvageble because we finally have some decent DL and LB coaches.
In order of your questions
Yes. With his lack of work desire no, with his capability yes. Weighs too much. Yes/No (he needs to show SOMETHING in camp if he wants to stay. If Leslie out performs him by a good margin though he will probably be gone).
Never do card tricks for the group you play poker with.
Rodney Leslie
I’ve watched Rodney play since his days at UCLA. When he is not injured, he is an excellent player – he just needs to be uninjured and given a chance to show his stuff. He didn’t get much playing time with the Saints and virtually none with the Giants. Can’t rack up stats if ya don’t get to play eh. Rodney has an awesome work ethic, much better then what I’ve read about Branch, and Rodney doesn’t “showboat”. He just does his job.
good to know and welcome to ROTB
I've won the same lifetime achievement award twice....yes I'm the Most Interesting Man in the World
We Need All Four...
NG is a unique, especially grueling position that, by it’s very nature, takes its physical toll on players. Whether it’s via quickness, size, leverage, toughness or unstoppability, the bottom line of the position is: "Don’t let the other team run up the gut & don’t let the opposing QB step up into the pocket at will.
In evaluating Branch, the danger is in oversimplifying things all the way down to “lack of effort.” I’m not so sure that’s fair. No doubt, you’ll find different players sport different “motors.” Some go non-stop 100% 24/7. At the other extreme, you’ll find zero effort (& very short pro careers). But the vast majority of NT’s fall somewhere in the middle – “pacing themselves”, playing or not playing with varying degrees of pain, opening up like gang-busters but fading in the 4Q.
One thing I noticed about Branch is that too often, his charge will be too high so that he gets stood-up, turned around and moved out of the play. To some this might look lackadaiscal, but it may have to do more with technique. (Of course, a valid argument could be made that one reason for not perfecting a technique might be “lack of commitment.”
This might be purely a matter of whether or not to devote an extra half-hour after practice each day toward charging lower and getting better leverage.
Bottom line is – We shouldn’t give up on Alan. We only have 4 nose-tackles in camp and, you never know, maybe the proverbial light-bulb might go on – at least regarding one important aspect of his play.
GBR
by jeffgollin@aol.com on Jul 7, 2009 8:08 AM MDT reply actions
yeah but it's fun to rip on him.
and call him a fatty
by CardsDefense on Jul 7, 2009 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions
Good Point
I have been a big critic of Branch but your points about his technique are valid. I think the reason I get so frustrated with him is because he is physically so talented. He has good quickness, great size, and good athleticism. But when it comes time to get it done on the field he just… doesn’t. When someone has that kind of natural ability but never shines you got to wonder if it is in his head or in his heart- or both.
MBN
by mbn on Jul 7, 2009 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions
If you look at the Pats and Steelers, most guys on their D-lines didn’t show much promise until a year or two into their careers — a year or two of struggling as starters. I tend to think the lack of playing time is what’s really hurting Dockett. Whiz & Co. don’t expect anything out of him and that’s exactly what he brings to the table. Give him a little more responsibility and see what happens.
We had so many blow-out/meaningless games last year, I don’t really understand why they didn’t at least try to use him more…
Most of the time he was inactive in lieu of people that could play ST
We all leave footprints in the sands of time, just watch out for the discarded fish hooks!
Alan Branch
How’s he doing in camp thus far? Is he still on the bubble?
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