Revenge Of The Birds: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Cal RB Jahvid Best Seriously Injured, Carted Off Field

3-4 vs. 4-3: How Will It Effect the Arizona Cardinals Line Backers

A while back we took a look at what it meant to be a defensive lineman in a 3-4 defense and how the Arizona Cardinals personnel fit into that scheme. Today though we'll shift our focus to the line backing corps to not only see where how our roster fits the system, but also what should be expected from each position. For most of the comparisons and expectations we'll look at nine other teams that run the 3-4 defense (Steelers, Chargers, Dolphins, Cowboys, Browns, Jets, Patriots, Ravens and 49ers). Here's the same disclaimer that we used in our look at the defensive line:

I'll be the first to tell you I'm no football expert or former defensive coordinator at any level, but I've done some nerd-like research (after all that's what the interenet is for right?) into the 3-4 since Ken Whisenhunt brought the scheme to the desert. It's not only a completely different defensive scheme with different responsibilities but it's also takes a different mindset for players, as well as a different kind of player. For the sake of simplicity in this article, we'll assume that there won't be much of a change for the secondary. The only tangible difference I could find was that they'll probably run more man-to-man coverage, but the Cardinals were never a big 'zone coverage' team to begin with. That allows us to focus on the front seven and more specifically, what the changes will be for the defensive line and linebackers as a whole and individually.

3-4_defense_medium

Star-divide

Outside Linebackers: Of the nine teams that we're using as our 3-4 models, the average size of the OLB spot is 6'3, 261.5 pounds with the smallest being Manny Lawson (6'5, 240) and Matt Roth of the Dolphins (6'4 275) comes in as the biggest. The average production from these 18 starters in 2008 was 62.8 tackles and 8.3 sacks, although we did use Shawne Merriman's stats from 2007. Out of our nine models, six of the teams had a OLB lead their team in sacks. Of the remaining three teams (Jets, Patriots and Browns), two were led by defensive ends (Jets and Patriots with eight sacks) and the Browns were actually led by their nose tackle, Shaun Rogers, who logged 4.5 sacks.

The job of an outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense is very similar to a defensive end in a 4-3, with one major exception. Although they do share the same responsibilities as a run defender and primary pass rusher, they also have the added responsibility of dropping into coverage on occasion. It's also important that the OLB is strong enough set the corner of the defense and funnel running plays back towards the middle of the field and flowing interior linebackers, but no job is more important that their ability to rush the passer. The six teams that had an OLB lead their team in sacks had an average defensive ranking of 10.6 (in terms of yards per game in 2008) while the other three teams had an average ranking of 17.3.

  • Cardinals current personnel: There are a handful of guys who will see time and fit the 'mold' of a 3-4 OLB. Guys like Chike Okeafor (6'5 247), Clark Haggans (6'4, 243) and Cody Brown (6'2, 244) figure to be the three guys who see the most time at OLB this season and all possess the pass rush skills to fill the position but as you can see, they're all of the small end of the OLB spectrum. Bertrand Berry (6'3, 260), Will Davis (6'2, 262) and Victor Hobson (6'0, 252) will be fighting for roster spots and playing time behind the 'big three' and could provide some bulk when they're in the game. Of this group, Okeafor and Berry are proven pass rushers from the defensive end position those skills should translate to the OLB position. Haggans has the track record of a complete OLB capable of holding his own in the running game and performing well in coverage but he's never been a major force in the pass rush department. Brown and Davis both possess the ability to rush the passer and it'll be interesting to see how quickly they are thrown into the mix. Hobson is a wild-card who has experience in the position and could be a decent fill-in starter.

Inside Linebackers: Of the nine teams that we're using as our 3-4 models, the average size of the ILB is 6'1, 244 pounds with the smallest being Stephen Cooper (6'1, 235) while Channing Crowder (6'2, 250)  comes in as the biggest. The average production from these 18 starters in 2008 was 101 tackles and a sack and a half. Seven of the nine teams saw one of their inside backers lead the team in tackles and the two top tacklers in the NFL were Gerald_hayes_mediummembers of 3-4 defenses (D'Qwell Jackson and Patrick Willis). Eight of the nine teams had at least one of their inside backers record at least 100 tackles and the only team that missed that mark, Chargers, saw their ILB record 98 tackles despite missing the first four games.

For inside linebackers in a 3-4 defense, they have a single responsibility above all others: tackle the guy with the  ball. For the most part, the inside backers are protected by their defensive line and they're expected to make tackles from side line to side line. These backers normally aren't a big factor in the pass rush department with only one player, Bradie James, recording more than 3.5 sacks. The primary reason for their lack of sack totals is because they're a significant factor in the passing game. Considering that most OLB's are rushing the quarterback, most of the inside backers are covering backs or tight ends or dropping into short zone coverages.

  • Cardinals current personnel: Karlos Dansby (6'4, 250) and Gerald Hayes (6'1, 249) are the starters for the Cardinals on the inside and they're both above average in terms of size and Dansby will be the only player in our sample size who is taller than 6'2. The duo of Dansby and Hayes are a great combination and they post stats that are very much in line with the better ILB groups in Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Dallas. As for the backups, Victor Hobson (6'0, 252) could see time on the inside although all eyes will likely be on Ali Highsmith. He was undrafted last year because of questions about his lack of size (6'1, 230), but it'll be interested to see how much bulk he adds by this year's training camp. The only other guy vying for a roster spot or playing time is Pago Togafau but his height, or lack thereof (5'10, 240), will always hinder his chances.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall there were a couple of things that jumped out to me while doing this nerdy research. First, this defense can be effective without having a truly premier pass rusher on the outside. The Patriots defense ranked tenth in yards per game and eighth in points per game yet their starting outside linebackers combined for just 10.5 sacks. Second, Karlos Dansby has the potential to be truly special as an inside linebacker in a 3-4 defense. His ability to rush the passer just as well as he can drop into coverage set him apart from the group and if the defensive line in front of him can keep him clean, he could in store for a monster season. And finally, I'll be keeping a close eye on Victor Hobson throughout training camp and the preseason. It's highly unlikely that our starting four linebackers will play all 16 games and Hobson's experience in the 3-4 scheme could make him the next guy in line at all four spots. So did all of that make any sense? What do you think of how our line backers would look? Who is the most crititcal player in this group of guys?

0 recs  |  Comment 21 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Revenge Of The Birds

Comments

Display:

Dansby and Hayes will continue to shutdown the run

forcing teams to throw into our much improved secondary. I really like our chaces of being a stellar defense next season. (As long as Gabe Watson can stay healthy and play at a high level.)

by CardsDefense on Jul 9, 2009 1:43 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

What ?

Stopping the run has been the biggest weakness on the Cardinals defense for years.The Cardinals definetly need much better play out of their run defense to be successful.

by RowdyReno on Jul 12, 2009 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Playcalling has been the issue

for the better part of the last two seasons the interior run defense has been very stout. getting burned by a big play through the air seemed to make Pendergast lose focus. Dansby and Hayes are Big inside backers that have great lateral quickness. Now that the secondary has become more reliable we will see an even more dominant run defense from the red birds.

by CardsDefense on Jul 13, 2009 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not that worried about the OLB. I really think that all the Cards need is one of Okeafor, Berry, or Haggans to step up for this to work. My issue is with the DL, but I’m not going to get into that here.

My question is if the OLB suck, and Hobson proves capable of manning ILB, would it be a good use of Dansby’s athleticism to move him to OLB? Or throw in Highsmith for Hobson if you’d like.

by KDean75 on Jul 9, 2009 2:06 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

no. keep your players where they are maximized the most.

Never do card tricks for the group you play poker with.

by sc464 on Jul 10, 2009 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t understand your point. In a 3-4, how do you know if Dansby’s maximized at ILB?

by KDean75 on Jul 11, 2009 6:15 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Skill set

Dansby’s best attributes are that of a typical all-pro calibre LB. He’s very good against the run and is solid in coverage and in particular at finding throws that are tipped at the line. However, he isn’t what I’d call a “speed rusher” off the edge. Usually, the guys who play OLB in a 3-4 are a combo DE/OLB, a guy like Simeon Rice would have been great in a 3-4 because he wouldn’t have been as susceptible against the run and his pass rushing skills would have been maximized. Dansby is a very good 4-3 OLB but the 3-4 really wouldn’t fit what he does best at that position.

by Long Beach on Jul 11, 2009 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is actually a popular idea from some guys that I’ve talked to about Dansby. While he may not be the pro-typical OLB like both the Steelers guys, I do think he’d instantly become our best OLB and lead this team in sacks rather handily. I don’t think he’d be an elite OLB, like he has the potential to be at ILB, but I think he could put up numbers that were better than Calvin Pace in his last year here.

The biggest question with moving Dansby to OLB, outside of if he could actually agree to the move considering that it would probably hurt his market value significantly, is who steps into his ILB spot? As KDean mentioned you’ve got Hobson and Highsmith as possible candidates and I’d also throw in Clark Haggans as well (considering that Dansby would take Haggans’ OLB spot), but what is the drop off from Dansby to one of these three? Hobson didn’t even have a job in December of last year so it’s hard to picture him as a starter just nine months later and Highsmith is a guy who wasn’t drafted and is now recovering from major knee surgery (not to mention he’s undersized). I guess I’d campaign for Haggans in this spot where his ability to cover and inability to rush the passer might be tailored better as an ILB.

In the end, this is all just some off season mental masturbation, as Hawk would say, b/c there’s no way in hell it would ever happen but it’s interesting chatter none the less.

I've won the same lifetime achievement award twice....yes I'm the Most Interesting Man in the World

by Bezekira on Jul 12, 2009 5:51 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interior Defense...Weakness

if you look at the Cards,their biggest weakness is the interior defense.If teams go after the Cards straight up the middle it will force the team to commit another player to the run defense,that in turn will open up our pass defense to one on one situations and make us succeptible to big plays down the field.Got to get better play against the run this year,or we will be seeing teams,pound the ball inside and run down the clock on us and keep our great offense on the sidelines.

by RowdyReno on Jul 12, 2009 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe two years ago

but the last two seasons have seen the Cards interior run defense become among the best in the league. Dansby and Hayes have become a cleanup crew that quickly stops any runner that manages to get past the d-line.

by CardsDefense on Jul 13, 2009 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Somewhat off topic question, but I’ve been wondering about this;
Can someone run down the various nicknames for linebackers like SAM, MIKE, etc.? Which names refer to which spots in which defensive fronts?
Thanks in advance

by manphibian on Jul 9, 2009 2:18 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I don’t always trust Wiki but their page on LB’s looks pretty decent. Check it out.

I've won the same lifetime achievement award twice....yes I'm the Most Interesting Man in the World

by Bezekira on Jul 9, 2009 2:21 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sam-strong side LB
Mike-Middle LB
Will-Weakside LB

3-4 doesn’t really differentiate the inside LB’s. it’s more about scheme, some flop the ILB to a strong or weak side, some don’t.

by KDean75 on Jul 9, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

3-4 just calls for OLBs both L & R. Not Sam, Will, or "preditor".

Never do card tricks for the group you play poker with.

by sc464 on Jul 10, 2009 12:13 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thought it derived from people playing those positions when the vernacular was created:

“Sam” for Sam Mills
’Mike" for Mike Singletary
“Will” for Wilbur Marshall

At least that’s my vague memory of Madden’s explanation way back in his CBS days.

We all leave footprints in the sands of time, just watch out for the discarded fish hooks!

by Hawkwind on Jul 11, 2009 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whoo!

Good stuff. I like the note about the Pats — consider how many of their LBs were injured for significant time, too (Adalius Thomas, Bruschi, Guyton, Redd, Crable, Eric Alexander — almost their entire corps., not to mention bringing Seau out of retirement).

KDean — dunno, probably not. Hayes & Dansby seem to have a pretty good rapport working together in the middle. He might not be rushing the passer as much at ILB but a 150 tak year is not exactly inglorious. I’d rather keep the OLB depth open for Berry & the rookies, keep Hobson at ILB for rotation. Just my op.

by tw3kr on Jul 9, 2009 3:28 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I

would certainly love to see the defense step up and stop those passing games this year. It would help out not letting games get so close at times. As long as they can stay strong I don’t really need the sack totals to jump up in the games. Does anyone know too what they were doing with Chase Bullock at ILB? I figure he will probably get cut at training camp.

by kj197728 on Jul 9, 2009 5:21 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Bullock is likely battling for a practice squad spot at best

Here’s a link to his projection.

I've won the same lifetime achievement award twice....yes I'm the Most Interesting Man in the World

by Bezekira on Jul 10, 2009 5:23 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

excellant write up

Never do card tricks for the group you play poker with.

by sc464 on Jul 10, 2009 12:14 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

common 3 4 names

Will
Sam
Mike
Mac

Life's too short. Be a fan. Magic, Cards and Rays! What a winning combo.

by hevchv on Jul 12, 2009 9:36 AM MDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Covering your Arizona Cardinals 24/7.
Start posting about the Cardinals »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Catscratchreader_m_small
Q&A with Panther Fans

Recent FanPosts

Arizona_cardinals-11696_small
Two Cardinals Tickets for Sale
Pict0005_small
The Bears are who they thought they were
Pict0005_small
Ask Windy City Gridiron
Tristin_028_small
Running Backs carring the load of our strugling offence
Small
Does Warner control the cardinals tempo?
Pict0005_small
What should we do with Leinart?
Matt-leinart-arizona-cardinals-16x20-photo_2d5934fd78762d8b40ee1487b5780783_small
Should Warner get the HOOK?
Helmet_small
Arizona Cardinals Open Draft Thread
Small
The Sky Is Not Falling On The Cardinals
W-michelle_small
Need 2 Cardinals Fans to fill my seats this weekend

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Contact ROTB

Here at RotB we're always looking for new contributors or anyone just willing to give their feedback. If you'd like to become a contributor, create your own weekly segments, or just have a question or concern, contact us at revengeofthebirds@gmail.com.

Latest NFL Headlines from SB Nation

Pats Pulpit
Sunday Fish Fry Part 2: Man the Longboats! Patriots offense v. Dolphin D
Arrowhead Pride
Chiefs Release WR Bobby Engram; RB Kolby Smith to Active Roster
Stampede Blue
Dear Bill Polian: Please sign Jack Williams ASAP

Head Coach

G_small cgolden

Andrew602_avatar_small Andrew602

Coordinators

100_0035_small Hawkwind

Assistant Coaches

Rw_cf08_small CardsFan08

Cards_small Pyromnc