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Tim Castille and the Role of the "Hybrid" Fullback

I'll state my bias upfront that I like the traditional 'hand in the mud, blood on the jersey' blocking fullback as opposed to the new trend of 'hybrid' fullbacks. I like my fullbacks to look like a fire hydrant and move like one too. I like them to have crooked noses from one too many blows to the face mask and a neck that's wider than it is tall. Needless to say I'm hoping that Dan Kreider wins the fullback job over Tim Castille.

Now that's not to say that I'm really against Castille because I do think his blocking has greatly improved since coming on board a couple of years ago but if the team keeps just one fullback, I hope it's Kreider. I know that Castille has his fans here at ROTB and I know that there are plenty of Kreider fans as well, but here's my case for Kreider over Castille:

  1. First and foremost regardless of any progress that Castille has made as a run blocker, Kreider is undoubtedly the guy that you want lead blocking when you have to convert a third and one. He is the better 'blocking fullback' and I don't think there is any debate on that subject.
  2. Second, a big part of Castille's advantage over Kreider is that he's a better pass catcher out of the backfield and that's not really debatable either. My counter on that argument though would be, with all of the pass catching options on this team, why would you want Castille to have the ball in his hands? Is he a bigger threat than any of the receivers? Of course not. How about any of the running backs? Jason Wright is probably the only debatable one but I'm guessing that most would still rather see Wright with the ball. What about the tight ends? I'd think that maybe Becht or Pope or Spach would be similar to Castille but at least from their position they're poised to get further down field than Castille would coming out of the backfield. So basically what I'm saying is that while Castille is better out of the backfield than Kreider would be, he's not near the threat of any other skill position player on the team and with so many other weapons, why not have one guy who can pulverize an opponent in the running game.
  3. Ok, I'll admit that I'm going out on a ledge with this point but I wanted three so here goes. So far this preseason we've seen the 'two tight end' set quite a bit and quite a few times one of the tight ends has motioned into the backfield and become the lead blocker. If they continue this trend wouldn't the second tight end in this situation basically become the 'hybrid' fullback? I know I've seen Ben Patrick do it several times and he's looked decent as a lead blocker but if the Cardinals did some kind of play action pass out of that formation, I'd much rather have Patrick running out into the flat than Castille.

Star-divide

Also a couple of points on Kreider that I've seen over the past couple of weeks. I've seen more than once someone mention that he's injury prone, but that's pretty misleading. He played in 103 consecutive regular season games before tearing his ACL in the Steelers/Dolphins Mud Bowl on MNF in 2007 and missed the final six games of the season. The Rams picked him up the following season but cut him after eleven games, but not because he was hurt. Some speculated that he wasn't fully healed from the knee injury but the fact remains that he wasn't cut because he was injured. The last point centers around what Kreider means to a team's running game. In the six seasons that he was the Steelers primary fullback, they finished in the top 10 in rushing in five of the six seasons and in the top five in three of those six seasons. In the season immediately after they released him, they fell to 23rd in the league after ranking 3rd the season before. Oh and the 'hybrid' fullback (Carey Davis) that the Steelers dumped Krieder for touched the ball 17 times for a grand total of 62 yards (3.6 avg) last year.

I'm in no way saying that Krieder will make the Cardinals a top ten or five rushing offense in the NFL because we're simply not built to operate that way nor is that the offensive game plan of this team, but he can help us be more successful when we do run the ball. This team has plenty of passing weapons without adding Castille to the mix. I implore you Cardinals coaching staff, keep Dan Kreider. Let him put his hand in the dirt and crack the skulls of opposing linebackers.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Revenge of the Birds' (ROTB) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of ROTB's editors.

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great article...

and i’m sold!

does anyone know the reasons behind the release of t. smith? he was a kreider style back and i do wonder why they would cut him if they didn’t think castille could be the guy

by beanbaglovers on Sep 2, 2009 10:29 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

The Raiders waived Lorenzo Neal

I could probably accept him winning the spot… =/

I think with the TEs moving to more of a blocking unit, a guy like Castille remains important. Castille was the short yardage back when he played in college, and he can catch — we know he’s got versatility and vision. Becht should never even be near the ball, and Spach has turned into a stone-handed drop machine. That leaves Patrick/Pope/Byrd, and of those, Patrick & Byrd could conceivably work the ‘hybrid’ role. I hear what you’re saying here, of course, but I think you’re under appreciating the potential value of having Patrick & Castille on the field at the same time.

You’re also leaving out the fact that Kreider is 32. Even though he appears to be constructed solely of muscle and punishment, it’s just going to get more and more difficult for him to continue to do his job, especially the smash mouth methods that have made him effective in the past. Couple the age with significant surgery a year or two ago and he could be one mid-season blown-knee away from retirement.

My final point is that Castille has been showing he has the blocking skills. Yes, Pittsburgh was super-effective running 6+ years ago when Kreider and Bettis were crushing people all over the field, but that pair had something Kreider won’t have with our RBs, and that is rapport. Bettis actually had Kreider come out of the tunnel first when they would herald Bettis’ arrival on the field. The RBs have to trust the FB to lead them through; a huge part of this is knowing how your FB is going to block for you, and what you can expect him to do. They figured that a big part of Tomlinson’s drop off last year was losing Lorenzo Neal — not just the ability of the player, but the familiarity between the two, and the ability to work together as an effective RB tandem.

We have fresh, young running backs. Why not pair them with our fresh, young fullback, someone they can be successful with for years to come, rather than someone who will last (at most) a season or two?

by tw3kr on Sep 2, 2009 1:56 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I see your point but....

would pairing some young RB’s with a FB who is a developing blocker, at best, be better than pairing them with a veteran who’s forte is blocking.

Also, if Castille makes it and he’s the ‘hybrid’ fullback, what kind of production is everyone expecting from him? 20 catches? 30 catches? And what kind of YPC is he going to produce with those catches?

Be careful....to a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

by Bezekira on Sep 3, 2009 6:23 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes. 3 years is a lot of time to develop...

Frankly, if he doesn’t look like he’s ready to go tonight, then he probably never will be. And there’s not much point keeping him around if he’s not going to be play at this point. But if he can make the blocks — which he has been doing — I still don’t see the huge advantage Kreider has. Like you said, we are stocked on offensive weapons. We don’t need a ton of production from Castille, but he’s a better hot read/option guy. Any time he is getting yards is probably a time when Warner really needs him to.

Which leads me to the strategic factor. Maybe part of our running troubles come from our looks — spread vs. strong FB, etc. Every time Kreider takes the field, we’re probably going to run, because the rest of the time we’ll be in some kind of spread. Even if they do throw it to him, the D won’t need to be worried about his YAC because he’s a big old slow guy, if he gets hold of it to begin with (I’ve heard his hands are decent but he’s 1/2 with us). If having Castille on the field means they have to have someone covering him, doesn’t that alone make it worth it?

I’m interested to see how they use Byrd tonight, and if Castille gets the ball a little more. A big part of this is that I haven’t seen anything from Kreider yet that makes me want to keep him, and I think it’s even more debatable how effective Byrd would be lining up back there regularly. I like the idea of either Patrick or Byrd being used to motion into the backfield, but like has been said, we have even more options pairing that with Castille. Teams are going to be more worried about what he can do to them than what Kreider can do, imo, because he can help keep them off balance better.

If Kreider holds up, and has at least a little of his previous form left, something that we haven’t really seen yet, then we’ll be fine. But that’s a lot of if’s, and I prefer the skillset that Castille brings because he has been showing that he can do everything, rather than one thing, and he gives us a future outlook at the position. If Kreider can prove that he’s not just fragile, old and washed-up, I’ll be content. If Castille continues to play well, I’ll be happy.

by tw3kr on Sep 3, 2009 7:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

A big part of this is that I haven’t seen anything from Kreider yet that makes me want to keep him

I’ve got sort of the same problem, I haven’t seen anything from Castille outside of one block against the Packers that makes me think we should keep him.

If you really think defenses will change what they’re doing to cover Castille out of the backfield, then I’d be all for keeping him, but I just don’t see that happening.

Be careful....to a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

by Bezekira on Sep 4, 2009 6:44 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, nobody really stood out last week

So we’ll just have to wait for cuts. Maybe we’re both going to be disappointed with our guys.

Maui’a! Maui’a!

lol

by tw3kr on Sep 4, 2009 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Close call but I am starting to lean towards Castille

I have always assumed Kreider would be the obvious choice, (pounder, Steeler’s guy etc…) and he may still have the edge, but I watched Castille against the Packers and he had a solid game all the way around. Although I know of Kreider’s M.O. I haven’t really seen anything that has been impressive. I am starting to lean towards Castille. Thus far he has proven more durable than Kreider (which is to tw3kr’s point) and I think he bring’s more to the ST than Kreider. With the evolving role of the TE in blocking and the lessening role of the FB I am starting to think Castille makes more sense due to his youth and versatility.

By the way, I see a possible connection between Byrd’s and Castille’s future. If Kreider is cut, I see the Cards putting a higher premium on an H-Back TE to lead block more often. A TE that is athletic enough to move in space and be a viable option in the play action. Of the TE we have that sounds most like Patrick and Byrd. Therefore, if Kreider leaves and Castille stays, I think there is a greater chance that Byrd may stay also. (convoluted but it makes sense in my mind)

MBN

by mbn on Sep 2, 2009 3:26 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree

I’m more of a Kreider guy, but I see everyone’s point about a young versatile Castille to pair with our young RBs. However, your mention of the TE’s is exactly how I feel. Put Byrd back there or off to the side and that creates a lot of weapons which can be lined up in lots of different packages. The more the Cards can get emphasis looking into the backfield and less at Fitz and Q the more dangerous the offense becomes!

Section 102, Row 18

by CardsFan08 on Sep 2, 2009 7:20 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll keep a 2nd FB

But it may not be Castille.

It could turn out to be Domonique Byrd (who incidently happens to have a FB jersey # – 39).

As a hybrid H-Bacj/FB/TE, Byrd would be expected to lead-block, wham block and catch – both spread out or out of the backfield.

I think he can do just about anything Castille does…and more.

GBR

by jeffgollin@aol.com on Sep 3, 2009 7:40 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

That's pretty much the point I was making with #3

Patrick and Byrd have both motioned into the backfield quite a bit and I’d rather see either of them with the ball in their hands than Castille.

Be careful....to a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

by Bezekira on Sep 3, 2009 8:50 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

+ 1 Word up

Byrd has looked good

by CardsDefense on Sep 3, 2009 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Urban agrees with you

Darren Urban lists Kreider as the his pick for the starting FB.

MBN

by mbn on Sep 3, 2009 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah!!!

That’s gotta stand for something right?

Be careful....to a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

by Bezekira on Sep 3, 2009 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Score one for Bez and Jeff

I’m always happy to see #35 on the field and it’s been awhile since there’s been a #39 playing. Or will Byrd take Jones’ #86 now that he’s been cut? Or will Long take it?

We all leave footprints in the sands of time, just watch out for the discarded fish hooks!

by Hawkwind on Sep 5, 2009 10:09 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

who knows.

I have a sneaky suspicion Byrd wants to keep that number just to be different. Maybe he’ll be noticed more. Also he may keep it to embrace his role as the H-Back.

Life's too short. Be a fan. Orlando Magic, Arizona Cardinals,Tampa Bay Rays and of course "the U"! What a winning combo.

by hevchv on Sep 5, 2009 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs


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