Arizona Cardinals Question Of The Day: Should Coaching Changes Be Made At The End Of The Season?
Following all of the anger after the Cardinals choked away a 14 point 4th Quarter lead against the Vikings, some people around here want to see some heads roll. And a couple of those heads belong to some of the people on the Coaching Staff.
Billy Davis is the main person who is being attacked right now. His defense gave up over 200 passing yards by Brett Favre in the 4th Quarter and Overtime alone, and it seemed like they became too predictable at the end of the game after shutting down the Vikings for most of the game. Kerry Rhodes and Rashad Johnson both picked off Favre, Joey Porter and Darnell Dockett were in Favre's face all day long, but at the end of the game the defense fell apart. You just need to look at some of the late plays, like one on 1st and 20 where Favre found Bernard Berrian who beat Greg Toler (although Will Davis might have blown an assignment since it looked like he was in coverage on that play too and he was near where Berrian was) for a 22 yard gain that set up the game winning kick in Overtime. Now, his defense has struggled mightily in some of the games, but it also seems like they are gassed from being on the field too long because the offense can't maintain a drive. Minnesota had the ball for 37 minutes, and 4 or 5 of those came from their drive in Overtime, there was just a massive disparity in the Time of Possession and it seemed like the Defense just could not keep up anymore after the Vikings went to a no huddle offense. The Defense has also been criticized for collapsing late in games, mainly the ones on our three game losing streak where they actually played well for most of the game.
A lot of people here want Davis fired, but there isn't really anyone better out there right now. I guess you could bring up Wade Phillips, but I watched the last three Cowboys games where their defense was incredibly predictable, and they gave up over 35 points in each of their last three games. The Cowboys talent level on Defense is also comparable to some of the talented players we have in Arizona. If you do fire Davis though, it will have to be after the season is over because you just can't force the Defense to learn a whole new scheme this year.
There is also a lot of criticism directed at Hall of Famer Russ Grimm. He was a great lineman during his career in the NFL, and he is talked about as being one of the best O-Line coaches in the NFL, and before the season began there was a lot of hype about this O-Line. Hype about how there was more talent on this Line than there was on any of the other teams that Coach Whiz and Grimm worked with, but we have not seen a lot of progress and it seems like having a Quarterback like Kurt Warner made the entire line look better than they actually are. During the Preseason, Matt Leinart had someone in his face as soon as he got the snap, Derek Anderson has been sacked more this year than he was all of his horrendous 2009 season with the Browns and he was sacked six times by Minnesota (although about four of them came at the end of the 4th Quarter, and the 3 and out drive in Overtime), in fact the 16 sacks that he has gone through this year over the 8 games that he has played in are a career high for him. Even during his Pro Bowl Season in 2007 when he threw 527 passes, he was only sacked 14 times. Max Hall has also been pounded during his time as a starter.
Looking at the O-Line, Lyle Sendlein and Deuce Lutui have been the most consistent, Levi Brown has struggled, Brandon Keith has also struggled but it seems like he has improved, and Alan Faneca is what he was advertised to be (Good run blocker, mediocre pass blocker). The line is built as more of a run blocking unit, so it isn't a surprise that they haven't been great at pass blocking, but they are even having issues getting the ground game going. Even when they had the lead, the Cardinals could get nothing going on the ground, and as a whole they have been incredibly inconsistent. Grimm has to be held more accountable.
And now we head to Coach Ken Whisenhunt. I know there are a couple of people here who want him fired, and I highly disagree with those suggestions. Although he benefited from a Hall of Fame Quarterback falling into his lap (one that Denny Green couldn't have success with though...), he has still changed the culture for for team, and he brought a winning mentality from Pittsburgh. Now, even the best of coaches have down years, but people are frustrated with Whisenhunt for some of the decisions he has made this year, most notably cutting Matt Leinart and not making a bigger play to go for a big name Free Agent Quarterback like Donovan McNabb, or even someone like Marc Bulger. His playcalling has also been criticized, and people have stated that it is like he doesn't realize that Kurt Warner isn't the Quarterback this year, the Quarterback is a guy who had one of the worst seasons by an NFL Quarterback in the last decade in 2009 with the Browns. I'm talking Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell levels of bad. I do think that Whisenhunt should hand the playcalling duties to someone else, the success in the 2008 Super Bowl Season was with Todd Haley (who is now in Kansas City where the Chiefs are surprisingly 5-3 right now and playing good football) not Whisenhunt calling the plays, and it seems like he gets overwhelmed at times trying to be the Head Coach and the Offensive Coordinator at the same time (you could say the same thing about Wade Phillips in Dallas). I think that next year, there should be a new Offensive Coordinator, but Whiz has earned my trust, and even though he has made some mistakes this year I will still believe in him until he does something to take that trust away (and yes, one losing season will not be enough to do that, you don't fire a coach if they have ONE bad year).
So, what do you guys think? What coaching changes (if any) should be made after the season ends? Right now, I'm still okay with everyone here, but Billy Davis is on the hot seat.
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I completely agree
I think Whiz is a good OC, he certainty showed that he could do it in Pit.
Whiz knows that DA isn’t Warner and does try to play to his strengths yet the issue is that he expects DA to play the way he should be playing and not the way he is actually playing.
DA is inconsistent yet Whiz still asks him to make plays like he is consistent. Truly I think the problem is Whiz’s expectations of how the QB position should be played and how it has actually been played. I think it is time for him to accept our QB play sucks and start making play calls that correspond to that reality. We can’t be clever with DA because DA isn’t good enough to make many of the throws necessary. He showed marked improvement this game yet when called on to secure us the win he couldn’t capitalize. I don’t think DA has the “awareness,” intelligence or touch to make a hot read and throw to a spot like successful QB’s can. DA can’t read a D like Warner could nor do I think he ever will be able to.
So, it’s time to bite the bullet and stop utilizing our depth at WR. It’s tough not to use the WR’s we have because our WR stable is deep and talented. It’s time for more 22 and 21 personnel formations. It’s time for a lot less 3+ WR sets. DA doesn’t have the skill set to fully utilize these formations and the advantages and disadvantages that they create.
I do want a OC, not because I think Whiz is bad at it, but because I believe he needs more input. Two heads are always better than one.
Whiz has shown some nice creativity though
The next OC would have to keep doing that.
Stuff like the pass by Breaston, and I didn’t see it but some people said DRC was out there running deep routes on a few plays.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team(s), throughout the good and the bad. And don't switch to whichever team wins the Super Bowl each year.
The Breaston pass worked (somehow) but I thought it was borderline crazy
against the vikings in that situation.
by Drullin'OverDaCards on Nov 9, 2010 2:05 PM MST up reply actions
It was supposed to be a bomb for Fitz too
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team(s), throughout the good and the bad. And don't switch to whichever team wins the Super Bowl each year.
by JoeCB1991 on Nov 9, 2010 3:26 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Creativity?
Like creating this QB fiasco? How about creating a run game? That would be highly recommended, due to the QB fiasco!
by Arizona Retiree on Nov 9, 2010 4:39 PM MST up reply actions
DRC was out there on at least one play.
The 17 yard catch by Fitz. Saw #29 running down the sideline on the replay and did a double take.
I agree with a slightly different twist
I think play calling and HC are too much for one person in a team that has issues with consistant play.
by Drullin'OverDaCards on Nov 9, 2010 2:08 PM MST up reply actions
I agree too
I get frustrated at the end of games with what seems like really poor clock management. Gotta give the Retiree his props, we need to stick with the run a little better than we do. First sign of adversity it’s out the window. When Kurt was here that was fine but that’s far from the case now.
by Birdman from Mesa on Nov 9, 2010 8:51 PM MST up reply actions
Billy Davis & Russ Grimm
Neither one is performing well. IMO
I was wondering, "Why is that Frisbee getting bigger" and then it hit me.
I still love Whisenhunt.
But I think he needs an OC. At this point, the offense just isn’t producing the results to justify Whisenhunt going it alone.
I like Billy Davis. I don’t want to see him fired. I think he’s done well with the defense. There have been collapses, but the defense isn’t this team’s primary problem. When your offense is a turnover/three-and-out machine, other teams are going to put up some big numbers. It’s just how it is.
The offense is the real problem right now. Can’t produce on the ground; can’t produce in the air. The first coach in line for a replacement should be Russ Grimm. Every year, Russ Grimm is hyped up as a great O-line coach. Every year, we hear about how much the O-line is going to improve. And what do we get? Zero pass protection and a terrible running game.
The offense is the problem?
Whiz is the Offense! Remember? His hand picked QBs and his play calling! How can you not love “The Whiz”.
Sorry, does not compute.
by Arizona Retiree on Nov 9, 2010 4:42 PM MST up reply actions
You're not wrong.
Whisenhunt has to take a lot of blame for the quarterback situation and for the offense’s lack of production. He’s made some serious mistakes, and his play calling just hasn’t been up to snuff.
It’s just that Whisenhunt has been a very good coach up until this year, and I’m not ready to say he’s suddenly turned into a bad coach. Maybe I’m being overly forgiving, but I think a lot of the problems on offense would be fixed if Whisenhunt had an offensive coordinator.
I think you hit the nail on the head
Whiz is a good coach with some flaws. An OC could provide some perspective and free Whiz,to concentrate on clock management, which has been a huge problem for him this year.
I’ve been very critical of Davis for a while, but with the way the offense has played, i don’t think the defense has really had a chance. The big blitz mentality that leads to turnovers and sacks and big plays is mandatory becacuse our offense can’t make any big plays. If and when we get some decent offensive play, then a more conservative, bend but don’t defense would work better.
No more night. I have seen the light. Let it shine on bright.
HANG HIM HIGHER!!!
by Cuckoo for Coco Puffs on Nov 9, 2010 2:51 PM MST reply actions
Some?
Yes, maybe a couple of glaring insurmountable flaws, but who cares. We love this guy, the big nucklehead. It will be fun watching this season go up in flames one game at a time. Whiz may not know much about football but he is one hell of a pyrotechnician. “OOOHhhhhh—- AAAHhhhh!”
by Arizona Retiree on Nov 9, 2010 4:48 PM MST up reply actions
Yes...Some
He was a great coach when Haley was the OC. We got to the Superbowl with a 9-7 record. Despite having less overall talent than many of the teams we played that year (Philly in particular). We didn’t have clock issues that season. Although we did get blown out of a few games (Philly on Thanksgiving—NE in the snow—I’m sure there were others)—but we never lost twice in a row.
The season before he used Leinart as the starter at the beginning of the season and was bringing in Warner for hurry up possessions. When Leinart broke his collarbone—Warner played great the rest of the year—but Leinart was named the starter in the preseason because he was doing well as a starter the year before. When he screwed up against Oakland (3rd preseason game)—Whiz decided Warner gave the team a better chance to win and Warner revived his career with an outstanding run for the next 2 seasons. That was great coaching!!!
This year, he didn’t think Leinart was going to lead the team well and that he could make it work with Dick in the Ass. He was wrong. That doesn’t mean he sucks and certainly doesn’t mean he’s losing on purpose as you’ve written many times in the past.
It does mean..that he needs help. An OC will hopefully correct the problems.
BTW—az-retiree…as I’ve posted before..there are times you make some good points. Other times you spew such nonsense that I (or anyone else) can’t take you seriously.
No more night. I have seen the light. Let it shine on bright.
HANG HIM HIGHER!!!
by Cuckoo for Coco Puffs on Nov 9, 2010 5:48 PM MST up reply actions
Washington and New York were back to back losses I believe
Then a couple of them late in the year.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team(s), throughout the good and the bad. And don't switch to whichever team wins the Super Bowl each year.
Here's what I would do...
-Keep Ken Whisenhunt
-Find an OC (or promote from within)
-Find another DC
or
-Fire Whisenhunt
-Hire Warner
-Let Warner hire an OC and new DC
by Arizona Retiree on Nov 9, 2010 4:50 PM MST up reply actions
Warner might make a good QB coach
But I don’t think he ever said he wanted to coach.
No more night. I have seen the light. Let it shine on bright.
HANG HIM HIGHER!!!
by Cuckoo for Coco Puffs on Nov 9, 2010 5:48 PM MST up reply actions
Whiz kid
Ithink Whiz has done a remarkable job in guiding the Cardinal Offense to be the second worse in all of the NFL, just ahead of the Carolina Panthers and the worst offense in clock management, dead last in “Time of Possession” in the entire NFL.
Did JoeCB call this HC “Great”? Come on Joe, show me where in the Cardinal stats can you show me “Great” results this season. You know, the first season without Warner calling the Offense.
Retiree
Your arguments are ridiculous. Truly you are hardhat with a different alias. Do you even like the Cards? Who should be our HC oh wise one?
I am starting to believe you’re solely an instigator with no true interest in this team.
by Jesse Reynolds on Nov 9, 2010 6:27 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I'm starting to feel the same way.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team(s), throughout the good and the bad. And don't switch to whichever team wins the Super Bowl each year.
I don't
I understand his frustration. This years team has solidified Warner’s “first ballot” status in my mind. That said, the Retiree gets a little over the top for me but I can no longer dismiss his view out of hand. The Whiz has made some questionable calls this year and I do think he needs an OC to help him.
by Birdman from Mesa on Nov 9, 2010 8:57 PM MST up reply actions
Doesn't NinerNation have someone on their site called Mr. Instigator or something?
He’s probably wishing the Cards will fire Whiz so the whiners can replace Singletary with him
I wouldn't hire warner!
…didn’t he also say Max Hall was great! What a joke that was.
Offensive Coordinator
I’ve been banging the drum on that one since Haley left. I don’t like the set up they are using now at all. It seems overly cumbersome. I believe they would be more successful with a dedicated OC. Whisenhunt should concentrate on being the head coach and find a play caller / offensive game planner to take over those duties.
Bill Davis hasn’t impressed. If there is a top quality defensive coordinator available after the season it would certainly be worth a look. I’m still willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt at this point. He’s been in the position a year and a half. The defense has been in the process of transitioning the scheme throughout that time. The biggest problem I have seen is that the defense does not adjust well to what the offense is doing as the game progresses. I don’t buy into the defense being worn out theory as an explanation for that. If that were the case it would only happen in games that were lopsided in time of possession.
As usual, I agree with you
I’d add that either the sceme, the players, the DB coaches or a combination of all three have led to a disappointing season from our corners thus far.
by Birdman from Mesa on Nov 9, 2010 9:00 PM MST up reply actions
Whiz is listening!!!
More plays for LSH, no TO for DA, running more THT in the Vikings game. I know he feels the heat as the losses starting to pile up. I think all the coaches are searching for answers. I don’t know if it’s the scheme or we just don’t have good players…
The players
just aren’t making enough plays when needed. The defense has made some spectactular plays but have been put in the position where they have to make too many. The offense can’t get things moving. Too many 3 and outs. Too many turnovers.
Not that I'm absolving the coaches here.
I just spent a bunch of time going over the play by play for most of our games this season. When the offense needed to eat up the clock or sustain a drive late in the game they repeatedly failed to get moving. (They failed to get moving most of the time, period.) A lot of fans are blaming Whisenhunt’s play calling but if you look back at the situations as they occured and what happened on the field it is about the players not getting it done.
I diss-agree!
We have no exp. ILB’s( Hayes was gone) and only one corner. The D is on the feild all the time. It showed last year against Green Bay, yea, we won, but we could not keep the D off the feild even with Warner.
The Matt issue is a black eye for Whiz. I have been PO’d about this from the pre-season. But to fire him for it. Matt should not have been fired and nethier should Whiz, but we still need a QB and NOT Carr.
Our line sucks. That is the suprise to me here. I knew DA sucked. But terrible QB’s go to the Pro-Bowl every year, becouse their line has a solid year. Fire Grimm? Hell no! Get those fat boys into conditioning in the off-season. John Lott knows what he is doing, give him a raise and get those fat outta shape donut eaters in here during the summer. No way should an NFL player show up out of shape, this is not the 70’s show.
Please do not missread my intent.
I am a homer, but not blind. I am old but not completely senile.
If my wife makes a bad call in the kitchen, I call her on it at the dinner table. If I blow a couple of honey does off, my old lady chews my ass till they get done. Goes with the territory. Welcome to the reality of marriage. We have learned to accept true and honest criticism.
Honesty is tough to deal with but we must call each other out to maintain a strong relationship and learn to put effort into trying to do things correctly. We avoid confrontation by improving our job performance as marriage partners.
We have each other trained and my wife is the best spouse, hands down. If she drags me over hot coals, I know I deserve it. I may not like it and be pissed for a short time, but I know I deserve it.
A true sports fan has a strong emotional relationship with his teams, not unlike a marriage. We fans want it to work, but if there is a problem we will vent! Especially me, I am totally invested.
The D’backs lost me when they fell ten games back early in the season, and I was pissed. They could not bunt, or take, or steal, or walk, or sacrifice or score. It was pathetic. They kept swinging for the fences, with men in scoring position and less than two outs. I couldn’t watch that shit game in and game out. The pitching was piss poor and there was no bull in the pen.
The Coyotes had a decent year and earned my support throughout the season. The Sundogs sucked hind tit and lost me early. It was sad after having run the table the prior season.
The Suns were great as usual. I could watch my guys every night. I love Gentry as HC. He has been amazing, unlike the HC for the Cards.
I live for football season, the Pack Ten had the opportunity to showcase themselves against the SEC and other so called “powerhouse” conferences across the nation and smashed them all. ASU and U of A have had compelling seasons and are both entertaining. The ASU coach is luckier than good, while the U of A coach needs a little luck to be great. How about Oregon at #1? This College Bowl Season will be another Pack Ten showcase and well worth the price of admission.
I love my Cards, it’s their puppet master I despise.
Please, do not take my constructive criticism of Whiz and his decisions as grounds for divorce, not from the Arizona Cardinals’ Franchise anyway. Just from the obviously inept HC.
In the words of the Elephant Man, “I am not an animal!”
OUT!
by Arizona Retiree on Nov 9, 2010 11:58 PM MST reply actions
Who me?
Hey JoeCB,
Do you actually think I have been howling at the moon. Do you believe that I am not a “real Cards fan”?
Can you please, look at the Cardinals Offensive stats and tell me I am imagining things. Show me where Whiz has been “Great” without Warner running the show.
All I ask is a fair shake, from you, concerning my assessment of the stats generated by Whiz and his hand picked QBs and his play calling.
Is it true that they are dead last in Time of Possession?
Is it not true that only the Carolina Panthers have fewer Rushing and Passing TDs and more INTs than the Cards? Do we have the second worse Offense in the entire NFL and with another poor performance, could easily slip into last in the NFL next week?
Do you really think I deserve to be called “Not a fan” for pointing out the architect of this offensive disaster for his on going implosion and bringing embarrassment to this franchise, it’s players and fans.
Sorry, but I think you are being way too hard on me and way, way too soft on Whisenhunt. He has earned the Green Weinie Award, for all that he has done this season single handedly.
by Arizona Retiree on Nov 10, 2010 12:40 AM MST reply actions
No one seems to be arguing your following points
1. Offense sucks
1a. Whiz calls the plays
2. Our offensive ineptitude keep our defense on the field way too long which makes them tired and ineffective.
3. That this offense was much better with Kurt Warner at QB
4. That Whiz messed up the QB situation
I think the frustrating part about your comments is that the players aren’t executing any better than the coaching. Whiz is probably a better HC than OC, which is why he was at his best when he let his OC call the plays. In my mind, that is the biggest mistake Whiz is making with the play calling. I’ll never agree that he should be fired already, as he has done more good than bad to this point, and 1 off (half) season shouldn’t decide the man’s fate. At least wait and see if we miss the playoffs before castrating him.
We all bleed Cardinal Red, but most of us don't recognize it!
"It takes no talent to give great effort"--Chris Petersen

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