Dansby to the Giants?
by SundayBlitz on Feb 11, 2010 12:19 PM MST
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PrintAccording to the Newark Star-Ledger, the N.Y. Giants have released Middle Linebacker Antonio Pierce. Pierce injured his neck in the middle of the 2009 season causing him to miss the final 7 games. On Thursday, the Giants released Antonio Pierce in a move that may be foreshadowing their intent to sign free agent Karlos Dansby.
Dansby has previously expressed interest in playing for the Giants, and this may be exactly what the Giants are counting on to sign him. Consider the following article from the NY Post:
Giants Turn Up On Dansby's Radar
Dansby is obviously interested in playing in a big market, perhaps because a big market may be able to afford the large contract Dansby is seeking in the soon-to-be uncapped year. The releasing of Antonio Pierce could potentially be a statement, a very bold statement, by the Giants that they expect to be the team of choice for Karlos. Unfortunately for the Cardinals, I'd have to agree that all signs seem to point towards Karlos taking a one-way trip to the big apple.
Sadly, I was still holding onto a very thin thread that the Cardinals would find common ground with Dansby and offer him an acceptable deal. It appears as though my thread of hope is going to be cut very soon.
Dansby could have been a great match for the Cardinals who could potentially be losing several veteran linebackers this off season. Already losing Bertrand Berry to retirement, the Cardinals also seem to be looking the other way in terms of free agent linebacker Chike Okeafor. With Dansby leaving as well, it appears that veteran leadership will be handed to Gerald Hayes (unless the Cardinals are able to acquire another veteran linebacker via free agency/trade).
While the Cardinals do have a few young linebackers eager to prove themselves, it would have been a great help to retain a pro bowl caliber middle linebacker to lead this new group of youngsters in an attempt to strengthen a very porous defense.
What are your thoughts regarding the possibility of the Dansby being in blue next season?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Revenge of the Birds' (ROTB) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of ROTB's editors.
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How about signing Pierce?
He’s older but their wouldn’t be a huge drop off at middle linebacker. I know he’s used to a 4-3 but he could make the transition. It wasn’t that long ago that he was regarded as one of the best in the league.
What? I didn't break it, I was just testing its durability, and then I placed it in the woods becuase it's made out of wood and I just thought he should be with his family.
Revenge of the Birds
wouldn't be a huge dropoff but Pierce's name is bigger than his on the field production at this point
His play has really fallen off in the past couple of seasons and his recent injury has to be concerning.
I could see Dansby playing for the Giants though and I could see him having a Brian Urlacher kind of success in the middle of a 4-3.
Be careful....to a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
If we are talking about a veteran ILB who could sort of be a stop gap guy
while a young guy (either Walker or a draft pick this year) got ready to play, I’d rather have Larry Foote. He has tons of experience in the 3-4 and doesn’t seem to be slowing down like Peirce.
Be careful....to a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
I thought about signing Pierce as well...
but realistically, unless we got him for a bargain, I would probably go for a different free agent or go for someone via trade. Pierce’s neck injury is also concerning so I may have to agree with Bez that Foote would be better.
Still, I’m a big advocate of using a Boldin trade to try and get a solid linebacker.
could there be any chance of Boldin for Suggs?
Never do card tricks for the group you play poker with.
After they just extended Suggs?
I doubt it.
What? I didn't break it, I was just testing its durability, and then I placed it in the woods becuase it's made out of wood and I just thought he should be with his family.
Revenge of the Birds
Q for Ray
It would never happen, but he could teach our young guys how to play the position. He has indeed found the fountain of youth in the form of a great NT. He admitted a few years ago when he had a down year that he needed a top notch NT to shine. In comes Haloti Gnata and the rest is history.
Life's too short. Be a fan. Orlando Magic, Arizona Cardinals,Tampa Bay Rays and of course "the U"! What a winning combo.
by hevchv on Feb 11, 2010 2:47 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Is Foote a free agent?
What? I didn't break it, I was just testing its durability, and then I placed it in the woods becuase it's made out of wood and I just thought he should be with his family.
Revenge of the Birds
but didn’t he choose to play in Detroit as he’s from there? Why wouldn’t Detroit be interested in bringing him back?
Wouldn’t you have to pay a premium to get him to leave his hometown?
not necessarily. if we can convince him we're a contender he might be okay with moving to arizona
also, he’d automatically be one of the most important players on our defense because of our severe lack of depth at linebacker
He signed a one year deal with Detroit....
partly because it was his hometown and partly because they guaranteed him a starting job. Now that they have a younger ILB in thier system that they’re excited about they won’t guarantee him that same starting job.
Be careful....to a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Sorry but no
When they put Pierce on IR the reports were that the injury was potentially career-threatening. There’s no way we should touch Antonio even if his MRI was “positive.”
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome again. True story.
-Barney Stinson
Dansby...
…to be honest I don’t think he’s worth the money he’s made in the past two years. His numbers were way down and he does better in a slower system then what Whiz and Bill Davis want in a fast smash mouth defense. I think we could find someone much better at ILB. Really liking this years draft class for DE/OLB too! So not to worried about it.
i feel like a lot of our players are better suited for the 4-3
dansby is a better OLB in a 4-3 than an ILB in the 3-4. Dockett is a better 4-3 DT than a 3-4 DE. and A-dub is much more useful in a 4-3 than a 3-4 (not that I would ever ever ever want him gone). What we really need is for Cody Brown to start playing well this year (kind of like how Campbell emerged after Antonio Smith left) and to draft a middle linebacker who is better in coverage (which I always thought was the weakest part of Dansby’s game). We need to get good draft value for our linebackers because very rarely do championship teams have very high profile, high cost linebackers, they’d rather spend their money on CBs and outside pass rushers
Karlos
likes being with the Cardinals. I still don’t think he is anywhere near being the best ILB in the NFL for paying out top money. Can they resign him for a few more years at a good deal? Maybe it is possible but he is probably going to see what teams will give him and give the Cardinals a chance to match it. Still building on that 3-4 is hurting the team until they get all the pieces sorted out.
Not sure what
this says, just yet. Dansby would most likely play OLB in a 4-3, so releasing Pierce may be more of a sign that our chances of getting Florida ILB Brandon Spikes in the draft just vanished. Of course, the addition of Dansby and Spikes to their LB core would be a pretty strong statement to the rest of the NFC East.
LBs and Cardinals
When I read about this, I just think about all the really good LBs that have come through the draft in the last 10-15 years that we have missed out on, to name a few: Urlacher, Suggs, Zach Thomas, Ray Lewis, Joey Porter, Nick Barnett, DeMarcus Ware, Merriman, AJ Hawk, Patrick Willis, EJ Henderson.
Some names we drafted instead of them: Levi Brown, Leinart, Rolle, Pace, Bryant Johnson, Thomas Jones, Johnny Rutledge, and Simeon Rice.
Now, we have had some good picks, like Fitz and Dansby instead of various good LBs, and not all of these guys we missed are really great, and not all of our picks instead of these guys are that bad. It just seems like LB is a piece we have been missing for most of the years in AZ.
There were only a few “Pro Bowl calibre” LBs over the years and none of them were “franchise” LBs, like Urlacher, Thomas or Lewis. The ones I can think of are Seth Joyner ( 1 Pro Bowl w/us), EJ Junior (2), Eric Hill (0), Jamir Miller (0) and Dansby. I don’t know, it just seems like we have always had a void at that position and there have been plenty of opportunities for us to fill that void, yet we always choose a different direction.
by Cards are my Life on Feb 11, 2010 8:34 PM MST reply actions
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What? I didn't break it, I was just testing its durability, and then I placed it in the woods becuase it's made out of wood and I just thought he should be with his family.
Revenge of the Birds
Good Post
In fairness to the Cardinals, a few of these guys would have been viewed differently if they were with us now. I think if Eric Hill played on some Super Bowl/playoff teams he would have gone to some Pro Bowls, and Simeon Rice would have been an ideal 3-4 OLB. As I’m thinking about it, Hill would have been ideal for the 3-4 himself.
I do remember Jake Plummer lobbying for Urlacher back in the 2000 draft – too bad that didn’t take place. I’m hoping now that our Steeler influence is as strong as it is, that history may start to change and we’ll have some more memorable LB’s in the future – (although I still think Gerald Hayes is one of the more underrated players in the league) but to your point, no, you don’t think of the Cardinals when listing teams with “franchise” LB’s.
Agreed
On several points. I agree with Long Beach that Gerald Hayes is underrated. I have always been a fan of Hayes and will continue to be a fan. I agree that the Cardinals have never been a strong LB team (though I did love me some Seth Joyner).
Historically, I have never really considered the Cardinals to be very good on draft day. In fact, prior to the last maybe 5-7 years, I don’t even know if I would rate them as a team with an average draft score. I’d always been disappointed year after year on their choices. However, the last 5 years or so, the Cardinals have improved drastically in the draft and it has reflected in their success. Because of this, I now EXPECT them to take a strong linebacker and make smart decisions. I expect to see some new faces and linebacker next year and I expect us to have a big name in that position within the next 2 years.
by SundayBlitz on Feb 12, 2010 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
Dansby
Isn’t elite but he is good and by far our best linebacker. Haggins is mediocre at best, Berry and Okeafor are terrible now because of age and injuries and besides Davis there seems to be no hope (as we have yet to see C Brown). Losing Dansby would be a big loss to the team. Check his numbers and compare them to our other LB’s.
The only positive I can see is that ILB’s from college usually transition pretty fast to the NFL but I would hate to waste a pick on an ILB when we really, really need OLB talent and depth.
They are who we thought they were!
I agree
Losing him would be a serious blow! Can the cardinals franchise him again? Do you all remember when jamir miller left? I don’t think the cardinals have replaced him yet!
by lifelongcardfan on Feb 12, 2010 8:33 PM MST up reply actions
We could
but the cost would be prohibitive. If I understand it correctly, since we franchised him for second time last season we had to pay him a salary in the average top 5 of his position (which was around 9 million, I believe). If we do it again we have to pay him a salary of the average of the top five in the league, not just by position, which brings the damage to something like 16 million.
It’s either sign him to a long-term contract or let him walk. I hate to say it, but now that we’re committed to the 3-4, despite our painful lack of depth at ILB, in this scheme it can’t be justified.
The cost does get prohibitive, but the calulation is still position based.
A franchised players gets the greater of the average of the top 5 players at his position as of April 16 or 120% of what he got the previous year. Typically, the second year a guy is franchised ends up being 120% of his last year salary.
For Dansby he got $8.065 million as the franchise player in 2008. The second tag in 2009 meant he got a 20% raise to $9.7 million. If they tagged him again he would get $11.64M for 2010 and still be a FA in 2011.
BTW – The deadline for tags in 2/25 this year.
I am not sure if any player has ever gotten a 3rd tag. I do not recall one.
by Drullin'OverDaCards on Feb 15, 2010 3:09 PM MST up reply actions
+1
I appreciate the clarification, I knew it would be a ridiculous number to tag him again but I couldn’t remember how it got calculated.
I can’t recall a third tag on anyone either, but I’m not saying it hasn’t happened.
If we have to be that third team
So be it. Kick him down the road next season.
They are who we thought they were!
by Jesse Reynolds on Feb 16, 2010 11:11 AM MST up reply actions
I hear you, however
that may be easier said than done. I don’t follow our cap number as close as some but giving over $11 million to Dansby may make it impossible to upgrade other positions that need it badly. Not that our situation at ILB without him doesn’t qualify as being a badly needed upgrade, but in a 3-4 scheme ILB’s just aren’t worth that amount.
This year is uncapped as of 3/5
But that doesn’t matter. KD does not deserve that kind of money.
Life's too short. Be a fan. Orlando Magic, Arizona Cardinals,Tampa Bay Rays and of course "the U"! What a winning combo.
I still like your answer
and I’m sure it’s accurate, but here is where the $16 million number gets reported again:
– Graves said the Cardinals have not made a final call on whether to use a franchise or transition tag on an unrestricted free agent. That is still being discussed (the deadline is Feb. 25).
Nevertheless, the Cards don’t seem to have a likely candidate for a franchise tag. They can’t tag LB Karlos Dansby (whom Graves said the team does want to retain if possible) because to do so for a third straight season would cost $16 million. They could transition tag Dansby — for a similarly big paycheck — for the right to match any free-agent offer.
That came from Darren Urban’s blog, and the point being the same, he is prohibitively expensive at this point from a franchise tag perspective.
For once,
my thoughts on franchising a player were actually correct, this explains where the $16 million + number comes from:
It would cost the Cardinals a whopping $16,881,433.60 to apply the franchise tag to free agent LB Karlos Dansby.
In order to use the franchise tag for a third straight year, teams must pay the average of the NFL’s top five highest-paid players. Peyton Manning, Julius Peppers, Donovan McNabb, Matt Cassel, and Tom Brady’s averages come out to over $16M. While you notice what sticks out about the previous sentence, we’ll confidently say Dansby has played his last down in the desert
I was wrong but so is the above
3rd year tag gets the greater of:
(1) the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position with the highest such average;
(2) 120 percent of the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position at which the player played the most games during the prior League Year; or
(3) 144 percent of his Prior Year Salary.
So for Dansby if he had been tagged he would have gotten the average for the top 5 qbs, since qbs have the highest position average and that was the greatest salary of the above 3. Basically, it makes it crazy to tag a guy 3 times. If you tagged a QB would get the top 5 average qb year 1 ($16M), 120% of that in year two ($19M) and 144% of that in year 3 ($27M).
by Drullin'OverDaCards on Feb 26, 2010 2:26 PM MST up reply actions
I believe you
as you seem like someone who has a pretty good understanding of all this, but as we’ve talked about, tagging Dansby again isn’t happening for obvious reasons (regardless of how thin we may be at ILB).
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