Niner Follies - Alex Smith - improving ?
I constantly hear on various boards how Alex Smith is improving and is only getting better as he acclimatizes to their latest stab at an offensive brain trust. So, I figured all this improvement should be reflected in his performance as last year progressed. He started the last 11 games so I broke this into first 6, last 5. Just for laughs, I did the same for Matt Leinart's rookie year (2006), 12 games, first 6, last 6. I figured the abortive injury season (2007) was not worth including (5 games and out). We really don't have a lot to work with except his rookie season and a few odd games last year. Most numbers shown are averages, except where labeled as Median, that being the exact middle of the low to high list for each value, sometimes more informative than an average. Charts after the break...
| Alex Smith - 2009 | ||||||||
| Period | Avg QBR | Att | Cmplt | Pct | Yds | YPC | TD | Int |
| 1st 6 | 85.2 | 32.7 | 20.3 | 62.7 | 211.2 | 6.6 | 1.8 | 1.2 |
| 2cd 5 | 78.5 | 35.2 | 20.6 | 58.7 | 216.6 | 6.2 | 1.4 | 1 |
| Median values | ||||||||
| 88.8 | 33 | 19 | 60.7 | 222 | 6.4 | 2 | 1 | |
Notice that the second half of his season, his numbers are worse than the first half. In the second half, his rating, completions, Yards Per Catch and TDs are all BELOW his median numbers (exact middle number for each value).
This is extremely interesting because they played the softest part of their schedule in those last 5 games.
With Smith in charge, they beat ONE team with a 2009 winning record, us. In the second 5, he had us, and the Eagles (lost to the Eagles, beat us). He also had Seattle (5-11), lost to them and beat Detroit and Saint Louis, yahoo. The fact that he actually seemed to regress, bodes well for us. And that opinion is just as valid as all these loons saying he will break out this year, based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever.
Let's look at Leinart's rookie year, 12 games.
| Matt Leinart - 2006 | ||||||||
| Period | Avg QBR | Att | Cmplt | Pct | Yds | YPC | TD | Int |
| 1st 6 | 59.9 | 31.8 | 16.5 | 53.3 | 185.8 | 5.9 | 0.8 | 1.2 |
| 2cd 6 | 92.7 | 31.0 | 19.2 | 62.8 | 238.7 | 8.2 | 1 | .8 |
| Median values (even number so they are #s 6 & 7) | ||||||||
| 76-88.6 | 34-35 | 19-20 | 60.8-61.8 | 214-216 | 6.3-6.8 | 1 | 1 | |
A solid improvement in the second half. This is a QB that actually is improving (and let's face it, that 2006 Team wasn't half the team he has now). In almost every category, he improved on his Median values in that second half. Definitely a sign of improvement.That second half rating, across all of 2009 would have put him at 13, .2 behind Donovan McNabb. Alex Smiths 2cd half rating would have put him at 21, just ahead of Jay Cutler.
But what does Matt Leinart's rookie year have to do with now ? Well it is the most consecutive games he played at any time. His 5 games in 2007 were pretty much a disaster (plus Kurt Warner had yet to teach Whiz that maybe he had a passing team on his hands). Then, the great wait.
There were some games we can extrapolate from in 2009. Let's consider every game where he had at least 10 attempts.
@ Saint Louis Rams, 10 of 14, QB rating 83.6, we won. Not bad for someone stepping in cold, with I would bet, no first team practice the week before.
@ Tennessee Titans, 21 of 31, QB rating 88.1, we lost (prevent does nothing but prevent YOU from winning). No first team practice, improved over the previous week, running a pretty vanilla version of the offense designed for Warner.
Green Bay Packers, a totally ugly mess, I don't think Whiz was even trying to stay close, let alone win. We showed them nothing and did nothing, the whole team. I'm not even going to count this, watching it was enough of a joke (although, strategically, it was probably a masterpiece).
@ New Orleans Saints, 7 of 10, QB rating 85.8. Once again, I doubt he had much of any practice the week before, he still looked solid, but the game was already over.
So, with not much playing time in 2009, he is STILL averaging better than Alex Smith, who only got worse, statistically, as the year went on.
Which is why I think Leinart lights it up this season. People that say he played soft in TEN weren't watching the game I watched. A few plays you could see him wait for the receiver, with a D-lineman bearing down, clearly in view, and just like Warner, he waited for the last possible second and delivered the completion (and just like Warner, got demolished a fraction of a second later). Anyone that thinks this guy has not learned from watching Warner (although, with that example I hope it doesn't get him killed), obviously just can't accept that maybe the guy is good and maybe, even better than good (and this from someone who NEVER liked Leinart until that TEN game, now I'm a believer).
Meanwhile, I have not seen ANY evidence anywhere suggesting Smith is, or can be, anything better than mediocre.
Go CARDS !
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Revenge of the Birds' (ROTB) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of ROTB's editors.
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good post +10
Love the stats to back up what u r saying
The Devil Birds just got cha
by DaCards on Jul 26, 2010 1:41 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
That's the thing...
None of what he’s saying about Smith is supported by statistics or anything else for that matter.
by mr. instigator on Jul 27, 2010 10:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Rec'd
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad. And don't switch to whichever team wins the Super Bowl each year.
+1 Nice work
Though if you are breaking down stats into 5-6 game periods, there’s still no good reason in my mind to exclude the first 5 games of 2007. If you’re looking to analyze a trend in Matt’s performance, why exclude a third of those consecutive starts simply because he and/or the team was off to a poor start?
Section 135, Row 35
Learning a new playbook?
Him and Smith were not very good in 07 though.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad. And don't switch to whichever team wins the Super Bowl each year.
Perhaps because he could only break down 5 games
Where as in 2006, he could use a wider range of games.
What? I didn't break it, I was just testing its durability, and then I placed it in the woods becuase it's made out of wood and I just thought he should be with his family.
Revenge of the Birds
I disagree with you
Smith very much improved last year and is bound to keep improving if Gore, Davis, and Crabtree are healthy and if the offensive line protects him. When compared to Matt this next season, he is in a much better position to succeed.
In the St. Louis game, Matt had the whole 2nd half to him self, and he and the Cards went scoreless for the rest of the game against a very weak Rams defense.
He did OK in the Titans game, but should of done a bit better. We had 2 more possessions ,after the Highttower touchdown in the 4th quarter, but punted on both when we should of at least got a field goal or two. This was against a weak Titans secondary, and Matt shares his fault in that in that loss.
I agree with you on the Greenbay game, that was a strategic loss, we barely showed anything, and they showed a lot, especially the defense, which is why they were horrible against Warner in the playoffs.
I’ll give Matt some credit on that 71 yard drive, but not full credit because it was in the end of the 1st half and the Saints were playing prevent defense, which helped Matt complete his short passes with no problem. Although I liked how cool and calm he stayed in a very loud and intimidating atmosphere.
Having said all of this, I still think Matt is very capable if the offensive playbook is tweaked to suit his strong points.
by CanadianCard on Jul 26, 2010 9:33 AM MDT reply actions 4 recs
canadian 9er is that ur name jk
The Devil Birds just got cha
by DaCards on Jul 26, 2010 9:43 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Well considering Whiz admitted that they played conservative against the Rams and Titans when Matt was in
I wouldn’t put all of the blame on his shoulders.
What? I didn't break it, I was just testing its durability, and then I placed it in the woods becuase it's made out of wood and I just thought he should be with his family.
Revenge of the Birds
improved ?
the whole point of those statistics is he didn’t improve, he got worse as the year went on and the schedule got easier… they ain’t my numbers, complain to the NFL.
IF these guys stay healthy, IF the O-line protects him (an O-Line projected to start 2 rookies)..
he is ‘bound to keep improving’ . Please, how do you ‘Keep’ improving when you haven’t improved in the first place ? The logic boggles the mind. You sound like the Niners fans, same team, some rookies, all their guys will improve, all their rookies will pan out, Smith will magically turn into a top-flite QB… based on what ? Some 15 year old’s analysis on Pro Football for Tweeners Monthly ?
and yes, the offense will be tweaked to Leinhart’s strengths and we just happen to have the best ‘tweakin’ Coach around.
Dude
You should take a logic course or something because your posts severely lack in that area.
by mr. instigator on Jul 27, 2010 10:27 PM MDT up reply actions
Good post
I as well didn’t have a whole lot of faith in Leinart till I watched that Tenn. game and my thoughts on him completely changed. I was a little concerned about Smith and possibly what the 9ers could do this season till you broke it down. Good job once again on this post!
Sorry folks, park's closed. Moose out front shoulda told ya.
Don't drink scsa69's kool aid
This post is NONSENSE!!!
by mr. instigator on Jul 27, 2010 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Ya know, as “bad” as Smith was last season…the Niners still whooped up on you. Now we have almost the same team, but more time in the system and some stud backups salivating for playing time. We lost to the Texans by 3 points, lost to the Colts ( a stud team) on a gimmick play (and still barely lost), and even with noodle-arm Hill we only lost to the Vikings on a last second miracle heave by Chuck Nor, er, Brett Favre.
by Riding The F Train on Aug 12, 2010 3:50 AM MDT up reply actions
can't wait to see Lienart in action!
I really think Whiz is playing all this very softly to give us that underdog mentality. I would even expect preseason to be very limited…then first game against Lambs BAM! let it loose!
LOL
When we Niner “loons” talk about Smith’s improvement it has to do with improving from season to season, not game to game or one block of 6 games to the subsequent block of 5 games.
Using that type of analysis you’ll see that clearly Peyton Manning “regressed” from the first half of ’09 to the second half of ’09
1st 8 games averages:
71% comp, 318 yrds, 2td, .6 int, 107.3 rating
last 8 games averages:
66.6% comp, 244 yrds, 2.1td, 1.4 int, 92 rating
CLEARLY Peyton Manning is taking a step backwards, and his numbers have NOTHING to do with randomness and DEFINITIVELY show a trend.
by mr. instigator on Jul 27, 2010 10:15 PM MDT reply actions
92
ANY QB with a 92 in 8 games and a higher rating all year, is just fine. For the year, 92 would have put Manning just with McNabb at 11th. Fade from 107 to 92 and you are still bumping top ten, with folks like Brees, Rogers,Farve, Brady, Warner, etc etc.
Fade from 85 to 78 and you can;t even SMELL the top 10, you are so far below their jockstraps. When Alex can fade and still win all his games AND keep a top ten rating, then you might have a comparison. So if his ‘improvement’ to a 78 has yas all excited, what the heel did he start with … 50 ? Godd luck with that.
WTF?
Dude seriously? That’s all you have to respond with? That a 15 pt QB rating drop is not as bad as a 7 point QB rating drop? Did you not get the POINT of my post? I’m not REALLY saying that Manning got worse as the season progressed… I’m saying your logic is FLAWED because comparing a QBs performance within a year based on those stats really shows you NOTHING at all.
What is of importance, and what you should have focused on is year over year improvement, which Smith HAS shown. I’m not even saying he’s going to be all that great, but I certainly wouldn’t put ANY stock in your analysis, nor would any other thinking person for that matter…
by mr. instigator on Jul 27, 2010 11:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Overreacting?
Actually yeah, Peyton obviously didn’t play as well as he did in the first half. He did digress, will he continue digressing? Probably not but the possibility exists. While at the same time, a 97 is still an almost elite level of efficiency. A 78 means your average. Big difference.
I admit, on the other side of the coin just because Leinart improved while the season went on it turned out the next season he really hadn’t improved. Same thing could happen to Smith. Personally I doubt it, but the chance does exist. Just like the chance Leinart could perform beyond expectations this season.
Arguments logical to me.
"Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that." - Bill Shankly
I hate to agree with the Niner Nation on this
but their outrage is understandable if you play around with the numbers a little bit. For example, if we break the QB average into the first five games, and then the next six (the opposite of what scsa69 did) it’s now around an 83 for the first five, and 81.6 (rounded) for the next six, or basically the same. The other thing you can do, since we have direct experience with it ourselves, is throw out the Eagles game and his QB rating over the last six is 89. I mention that because we didn’t exactly play great against the Niners after our big win over Minnesota, just as they didn’t play worth a shit in Philadelphia after their impressive win against us the week before. Not to mention, as we learned the previous season, Philadelphia isn’t an easy place for an opposing QB (long flights, frigid weather, noisy, etc.)
The one thing that did jump out at me was how up and down his season was (QB ranking ranging from 118.6 to 42.3, and hitting nearly everything in-between). The main reason for the optimism with Smith, and it’s hard to argue at this point, is that he’ll have the same OC for the first time in consecutive seasons. In theory, that should eliminate a lot of the up and downs the numbers show from last season.
Unless, of course, Adrian puts him in his trophy case alongside Edwards, Hasselbeck, et. al. Come on, Niner Nation, you didn’t think I’d let you off the hook that easy, did you?
Haha
At least you understand the point I’m making about scsa69’s post! I’m not arguing against his analysis just for the fun of it, I’m simply showing why it’s nonsense and why you Cardinal fans shouldn’t get confident in Smith’s failure.
BTW it’s Niner Empire ;)
by mr. instigator on Jul 28, 2010 9:21 AM MDT up reply actions
You're right
The Empire has been under siege from barbarians (Cards, Seahawks) but a new day is dawning. The rebirth of an empire is imminent.
by mr. instigator on Jul 30, 2010 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions
despite his lack of improvement, 4 reasons why A. Smith will fail VS the Cards
1. Adrian Wilson
2. Joey Porter
3. Darnell Dockett
4. Calais Campbell
r.i.p.
Ranking players before training camp even starts is asinine.
It’s just something for writers and tv people to fill in the time. Our linebacker situation does look fragile. We’ve got older guys with injuries and young guys who haven’t truly proven themselves yet. They could play anywhere along the scale and probably will throughout the season.
Alex Smith is a power bottom!
Who would win in a fight, Whisenhunt or a Hurricane?
Hold on, hold on, what if the Hurricanes name was Whisenhunt?
Daaaaaaaaaa Cards, Da Cards Da Cards Da Cards Da Cards!!!
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