Whisenhunt...on my hot seat
by Cuckoo for Coco Puffs on Oct 2, 2011 7:25 PM MDT
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PrintI know he took us to the Superbowl. In 2008, we were 9-7. We were lucky to play in a crappy division and have a home game against Atlanta.
We went on the road and Jake Delhomme, became Steve Sax and forgot how to throw the ball to his own team. (We won that game by 20--with 6 turnovers--should have won by 40).
Amazingly, we ended up with a home game for the Championship. Had a huge lead over the Eagles and blew it, only to get a fantastic drive to take the lead. We had to withstand a comeback attempt, which included a couple of dropped passes, to finish the game.
Made a great effort to come back and take the lead in the Superbowl, only to have Aaron Francisco falling down and blind refs unable to see Santonio Holmes right foot NOT touch the ground.
It might be that Warner was really good. It might be that Fitz is a stud. It might be a combination of timing and luck. But since that Superbowl run, most Cards fans (myself included) have given Whiz geniuses status.
I say NO MORE.
How many games have we lost, like today, that we "should" have won? Last season, the preseason decision to drop Leinert was a disaster. There is no question that DA sucked. Whether your a Leinert fan, or not, he at least knew our offense. I don't think he was given an equal chance in the preseason games and dropping him doomed our year from the start. Even with DA, Max Hall, and Skelton, we had games like today...that we "should" have won.
Our play calling is comical. We pass too much. We have to establish some running dominance. Our OL is geared to be a pulling, power blocking unit. But we pass 65% of the time.
Our defense, gives up yards like crazy. And when we need the offense to use up some clock and just hold time of possession, what do we do...3 & out.
On defense, we blitz way too much. How many "big" plays do we give up?
I watch games from all over the league. We have a number of talented players. It has to be the coaches
responsibility to get them to play better. I don't know who I would want to hire as a new coach. I like that Whiz is not a hothead. His press conferences are boring. I'm glad he's not a clown, like Ryan (Jets) or goofy like Carrol. Most times I wish he sounded more like Tomlin, ( Steelers). Perhaps Gruden would a good replacement.I've been a Cardinal fan for 40 years. There's nothing different now than there was through the decade's of the 70's(2 playoff appearances), 80's (2 playoff appearances), 90's (1 playoff appearance), 2000's (2 playoff appearances). It's frustrating to be Cards fan.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Revenge of the Birds' (ROTB) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of ROTB's editors.
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I've always been a huge Coach Whiz supporter
But even I have to admit that the Coaching Staff is holding this team back. Despite being a pass first, pass second, pass third, and then rush fourth team, Beanie Wells had 3 TD’s today. Imagine if the Offense was more balanced. Maybe, just maybe, we could’ve scored at least 1 TD on one of the 3 RZ trips we had at the beginning of the game.
This team has a lot of talent. We could easily be 4-0. But we could also easily be 0-4. And although it’s not entirely the Coaching Staff’s fault, a large part of the blame belongs to them.
Coach Whiz, I’ve always believed in you, but I’m starting to get tired of all the “almost had them” games. You’re losing your chances here.
Joe Saunders: "They played a really good game, so hats off to us"
sorry--I know I'm not a great writer.
So frustrated with this game that my thoughts are all over the place.
No more night. I have seen the light. Let it shine on bright.
HANG HIM HIGHER!!!
by Cuckoo for Coco Puffs on Oct 2, 2011 9:21 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree with somethings but there is some silly claims that you`re writing that don`t make sense
“Whether your a Leinert fan, or not, he at least knew our offense.”
Knowing is different then executing. Matt was slow and simply didn’t fit our offense, not one bit.
"Our defense, gives up yards like crazy….On defense, we blitz way too much. How many “big” plays do we give up?"
Whiz for the most part has nothing to do with these things, Horton is responsible for the D.
Whiz is the head coach--he's responsible for Horton.
just like he was responsible for Davis and Clancy before too.
No more night. I have seen the light. Let it shine on bright.
HANG HIM HIGHER!!!
by Cuckoo for Coco Puffs on Oct 2, 2011 9:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Fitting the offense.
Here’s the odd thing I find about Leinart not fitting the offense. The theory has been that Whisenhunt wants a QB that can heave it long but that is not what we are seeing called this season. Occasionally Fitz goes deep but for the most part our receivers are running short to mid range routes, even with four wide receivers on the field. Kolb is processing information too slowly. Too often he is not seeing the open receiver or throwing behind the receiver. Some deeper routes may actually benefit him as it would be more similar to what he is used to from the Eagles offense. It seems like whatever is expected of Whisenhunt’s offensive scheme it’s never what we get. First he would bring in a ball control running game. Two years post Kurt Warner and we’re still a pass dominated offense. Then it was he wanted a quarterback with an arm that could stretch the field. I would like to see some more of that field stretching as Kolb just doesn’t have the timing down yet for what they are currently doing.
my point wasn't that Leinert would have been great--only that the timing of it
insured that the DA would be a disaster.
In retrospect, that decision enabled him to lose without fear being blamed…it was the QB’s fault.
No more night. I have seen the light. Let it shine on bright.
HANG HIM HIGHER!!!
by Cuckoo for Coco Puffs on Oct 3, 2011 7:21 PM MDT up reply actions
your right.
Guys should be fined for asinine penalties.
No more night. I have seen the light. Let it shine on bright.
HANG HIM HIGHER!!!
by Cuckoo for Coco Puffs on Oct 2, 2011 9:24 PM MDT reply actions
We have a great pass rush.
My bad. Meant to say we can’t stop any pass rush. What was I thinking.
If you don't have anything good to say about the Cards this season, you'd be correct.
by hevchv on Oct 2, 2011 10:17 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
we haven't blitzed that much the last two weeks
and this team is not talented! why do people think this?
our qb stinks, our RB can’t stay healthy, we only have 1 good WR, our none of our lineman are that good, each of them is average at best. Our D-line is pretty good, but we still do not have the right line personnel to run the 3-4. We obviously dont have the LB’s to run a 3-4. Our secondary stinks, we have a so far disappointing 1st round pick and an undrafted player at CB. Our two safeties are horrible in coverage. This team is one of the bottom 8 teams in the league in terms of talent. Is it that bad that whiz can’t win with this group? no one could!
the counter to this is that whiz has been building this team…which is a good point. However, after losing all of the talent that we’ve lost the last couple of seasons, its not crazy to think that it might take a few years to replace that talent.
and really, lets get to the real reason we are 1-3 this season: KEVIN KOLB
this guy is not good. he’s skittish in the pocket, inaccurate, and he’s just not clutch. As bad as the defense has been, we’ve been in every game this season. The difference has been the poor play of kevin kolb. He refuses to stay in the pocket, if his primary receiver is not open, he freaks out.
Kevin Kolb isn't terrible
It’s just that many people, definitely including me, had high, high expectations for him, and that’s not fair to him. I guess I figured he’d run onto the field and become the next Kurt Warner, but all of us should’ve expected that he’s a QB that’ll have his ups and downs.
This team needs to become a run-first team though. Unless we get an elite QB, we need to lean on Beanie Wells. Problem is, how long can he hold up? I’m thinking we might trade for another RB before the deadline.
Joe Saunders: "They played a really good game, so hats off to us"
he's not terrible
he’s just not good. definitely not a franchise QB.
also, he got that huge extension, so the dude’s gotta play!
Kevin Kolb's play IS the difference.
Granted if we had some kind of pass rush the defense wouldn’t have given up 21 points in the fourth quarter. Get some outside linebackers with the quickness to pull off the 3-4 defense and our defense is in business.
Fan expectations aside, Kolb has not produced. I was laughing at the announcers in the Giants game comparing Eli Manning and Kolb. Daryl Johnston was spot on all day (with the exception of mispronouncing Calais) with his analysis. It was painful to hear him talk about how Kolb needs to learn to do as the lesser Manning brother does. Eli Manning is not the quarterback to have to play up to but that is exactly where Kolb is. Maybe Kolb gets better over time. I certainly hope so. Thus far he has not been impressive. His mistakes cost brutally versus the Giants.
Whisenhunts ego is more important to him than winning
Why would anyone run the 3-4 when their defenses biggest strength is the defensive line and its biggest weakness is linebacker? Because he is not a very good coach. I wont say Kolb stinks because really, he is in a new system with a new team. That will take time
by Redbird Nation #1 on Oct 3, 2011 5:31 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
thats the scheme he's always been around
this isnt madden, they just can’t switch schemes on a whim.
And again people, he took the cardinals to the super bowl. I think you are forgetting how bad this franchise really was before he got here…
that was the point of my rant...
we were a mediocre team (9-7) -that got some incredible breaks to win 3 games and get us to the Superbowl.-Geniuses status—ANY coach could have “got us to the Superbowl” considering the perfect storm of luck that helped get us there.
Everyone is giving Whiz
No more night. I have seen the light. Let it shine on bright.
HANG HIM HIGHER!!!
by Cuckoo for Coco Puffs on Oct 3, 2011 7:15 PM MDT up reply actions
( i don;t know why those words are crossed out--they weren't meant to be)
No more night. I have seen the light. Let it shine on bright.
HANG HIM HIGHER!!!
by Cuckoo for Coco Puffs on Oct 3, 2011 7:16 PM MDT up reply actions
really? ANY coach?
Incredible breaks? Like? We beat good teams! We got hot at the right time…its baffling that people can forget about how great a job someone did…it was only 3 years ago!
Cmon man! He had 3 non losing seasons with the CARDINALS…so I guess he got lucky every year? I can’t believe you guys are trying to minimize the accomplishments of coach whiz and that entire 2008 team…if u can’t recognize what they did for us fans…then honestly u just aren’t much of a fan. U guys weren’t around for the long haul, or u just weren’t dedicated cardinals fans at the time. Anyone who was around during the sun devil stadium days appreciates and recognizes the greatness of that team. Please don’t minimize their accomplishments any more
by forget on Oct 3, 2011 9:44 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
Seriously....
Some people look for reasons to kick someone when they are down.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Oct 4, 2011 8:24 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Take Kurt Warner out of the equation and heres Whisenhunts record:
3-5 first year before Leinart got hurt
5-11 last year
1-3 this year
Thats a 9-19 record without Warner. Its not too hard to see who made the team successful.
by Redbird Nation #1 on Oct 4, 2011 9:02 PM MDT up reply actions
so using your logic
phil jackson is not a good coach either? i mean take away MJ, Shaq, and Kobe and his teams would really suck…see how that makes no sense?
If you take Peyton Manning off of jim caldwell’s team, they suck. If you take Tom Brady away from those belichick patriot teams, they stink. Take Aaron Rodgers away from Mike McCarthy….and guess what? his teams stink!
you have to have great players in order to win. and when you lose a player like warner, it sometimes takes a while to find a replacement.
Coach whiz has won wherever he’s been…so leave him alone already!
Belichik
went 11-5 with Matt Cassel in place of Brady. But that would be the exception that makes the rule. Take away hall of fame type players from a team and they are not going to be as good. What people are forgetting about Warner is that when he came to the Cardinals he was widely considered washed up. Whisenhunt gave him the chance to earn the job. Denny Green wasn’t going to do that for Warner. Assuming every other coach they may have hired would have is ludicrous speculation.
matt cassel also led the chiefs to a 10-6 record last year
He was a viable replacement. We have not found a viable replacement for warner yet.
The point is, without brady, the pats are not making the playoffs…period
by forget on Oct 5, 2011 10:51 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
warner started before denny drafted leinart
by Redbird Nation #1 on Oct 5, 2011 3:51 PM MDT up reply actions
I know he was here before Leinart
and Green not only drafted Leinart, he dubbed him a “gift from god”. That’s not the praise you heap on a draft pick if you think the guy you have already is taking you anywhere.
Basketball is a different game
A lot more managing egos of players in coaching bb. Individual players can literally take over a bb game.
by Drullin'OverDaCards on Oct 5, 2011 8:48 AM MDT up reply actions
....what does this have to do with my analogy?
My analogy is true for all sports! Take out albert pujols, the cards suck. Take away verlander from detroit, and they aren’t making the playoffs. I don’t get what your trying to say in your post…great players make coaches great…that’s how it is, you can’t dispute that
by forget on Oct 5, 2011 10:56 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
and the lakers were a .500 team with kobe and without shaq
They only got good after they got gasol
by Redbird Nation #1 on Oct 5, 2011 3:53 PM MDT up reply actions
and when mj retired the bu were a .500 team that diddnt make it out of the first round
But were splitting hairs. Whisenhunt is not a good coach. Period. 9-19 will get any NFL coach fired
by Redbird Nation #1 on Oct 5, 2011 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Jackson was not a very good coach without Jordan
Whisenhunt is not a very good coach without Warner
by Redbird Nation #1 on Oct 8, 2011 6:20 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree that great players make great coaches but its painfully obvious Whis is terrible. Our team never makes adjustments throughout the game. That is why we always lose or almost lose in the 4th quarter. We do not play to our strengths and a good coach could make your team some what competitive with out HOF players.
by Nick T Kozar on Oct 9, 2011 10:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Also
Its not like it was all Warner.. We also had Bouldin. I dont know if you guys noticed this but he was often the go to guy on 3rd down. I dont know how many times he was the one to come through with the catch for the first down. Also all of the other players that cut out after our superbowl season. We havent been able to replace them. Yes losing Warner exposed us greatly but last year was a combination of all of the players we lost and havent replaced. Yes they werent perfect but remember Rolle was the one who came up with the pick at the end of the game that we lost vs the giants. they all contributed in small ways. Its hard enough to keep talent here but once we got to the superbowl they all wanted to cash in but we couldnt pay the money that wanted since they werent worth it. we just have to keep developing new players and make a system where we make the talent.
Insert epic quote here: "I got nothin'"
Rolle pick
Rolle got that pick because Kolb was staring down Fitz all day. He never looked anywhere else on that play. All Rolle had to do was not drop the ball.
The point of my post was
That Whiz was given “geniuses status” because the Cards went to a Superbowl.
After taking off my blinders, I realize, that Superbowl run was helped by some unbelievably lucky breaks. And since then, we have been less than mediocre.
The NFL has a lot of parody. Our talent level isn’t much better or worse than nearly every team. , Yet , we “always” seem to lose close games. We “always” seem to make the big mistake or blown coverage or fumble away a late opportunity. It happens too often to blame anyone other than the head coach.
No more night. I have seen the light. Let it shine on bright.
HANG HIM HIGHER!!!
by Cuckoo for Coco Puffs on Oct 5, 2011 9:43 PM MDT up reply actions
kent somers tweeted that whiz is like 23-4 when leading going into the 4th
I think DA and KK have had more to do with our late game woes.
Idk what our record is coming from behind though…
by forget on Oct 5, 2011 9:56 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
QB is once again our most glaring problem, thankfully with Beanie showing he can very well take over a game, the coaching staff may wise up and feed the Bean heavily, the Fonze also had a nice little scamper, time to run it 35 times a game.
21 points in the 4th quarter.
I am not waving the Kevin Kolb pom poms, but how can you blame him when the team, YET AGAIN, gives up huge points in the 4th quarter? Coach Corny Rows better figure this out, as it stands we do not have the personnel to run a Pittsburgh Defensive system, which is predicated on the outside linebacker, they dumb it down a little and they still get blasted for 21 motherfu*&% points in the fourth quarter. Back to the outside linebackers, Porter and Haggans both around 35, they don’t draft anyone or bring in experienced younger players and we all expect a different result. I am starting to believe that it was more the “miracle” of Kurt Warner and his play and connection with the Wide Outs and coach Whiz was just there for the ride. Has done absolutely JACK SH!T since Kurt has left, and lets not talk about the draft Levi Brown, Cody Brown, Buster Davis, they have a weak O-Line, HEY Lets not draft any this year. FUNKING GENIUS
poor coaching
If this season continues to unravel, and at this point there are not many reasons to believe it won’t, I say it is time for another coaching change. And no not just another new DC, but maybe time for Whis to go. If you take Kurt Warner out of the equation none of Whisenhunts teams would have won more than 5 games in a season, no better than any of the other long list of sad sack coaches that has come through here in the past 20+ years.
take any great QB
Away from a team and they suck! C’mon man!
by forget on Oct 3, 2011 11:07 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Again....
I agree. I know the team is 1-3 but they changed a lot this year on both sides of the ball.
At some point these arguments get silly…
If you take the good players off our team, we aren’t good!
If you take away wins, they are losses and we suck.
Well damn, when is that not true of any team?
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Oct 4, 2011 8:27 AM MDT up reply actions
My point exactly
Take away Warner they suck, had they never had Warner they would have sucked all along. So what exactly is so great about the job this coaching staff is doing?
Completely random
But does anyone think it would be a good idea to bring back Dennis Green to draft for us in the early rounds? He was a great 1st Round drafter.
Joe Saunders: "They played a really good game, so hats off to us"
The dude had 1 awesome draft and 2 ok to bad drafts. Dennis wasn't as good at drafting as people think.
2006
Rnd Name College Note
1 Matt Leinart USC
2 Taitusi (Deuce) Lutui USC
3 Leonard Pope Georgia
4 Gabriel Watson Michigan
5 Brandon Johnson Louisville
6 Jon Lewis Virginia Tech
7 Todd Watkins Brigham Young
2005
Rnd Name College Note
1 Antrel Rolle Miami (FL)
2 J.J. Arrington California
3 Eric Green Virginia Tech
3 Darryl Blackstock Virginia
4 Elton Brown Virginia
5 Lance Mitchell Oklahoma
7 LeRon McCoy Indiana (Pa.)
2004
Rnd Name College Note
1 Larry Fitzgerald Pittsburgh
2 Karlos Dansby Auburn
3 Darnell Dockett Florida State
4 Alex Stepanovich Ohio State
5 Antonio Smith Oklahoma State
6 Nick Leckey Kansas State
7 John Navarre Michigan
by GraydonS on Oct 4, 2011 7:43 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great post
We have 3 players left from all the above mentioned. Denny Green was far from a draft guru
by INSOMAN1ATIC on Oct 4, 2011 10:47 PM MDT up reply actions
absolutely, he should be on the hot seat!
We spoke at length last year about his handling of Leinart, the QB situation, his mis-handling of it, thinking he could plug DA into the Warner spot, etc. We also said the majority of the community gives him a pass last year, although there were already some who weren’t and aren’t happy.
Whether true or not, until the Cardinals make it back to post season, Whiz will not get the credit for the Super Bowl run….It will be Warner. You’re already seeing many in this community start to say this. I am already there.
I still think Whiz is a good coach. I think he is a good evaluator of talent. Average skill assessment in drafts. Seems to have terrific leadership skills.
But his downfall has been and probably will be his stubborn pride. We saw it with Edge. We saw it with Q. We saw it with Leinart. We see it with him sticking with Grimm (although we’re finally seeing a running game this year – YEAR 5), despite going through 3 DCs. And the most glaring admission is his failure to admit mistakes!! I won’t even listen to him at post-game or day after…..He speaks a lot of verbiage, but says absolutely nothing.
So, yes….He should be on the hot seat….Lots of reasons to be 1-3, but it must start at the top!!
I question
The challenge call and the no time out on 4th and 2. Other then that I would say the pass happy first half vs the Redskins. I think now that Beanie busted out like that we will be running all the time. that is what Wiz wanted anyways and now it seems like he can. I think even though we arent winnign we are still improving. Just not enough to win games I would say. It hard to judge because we are so weak on the road. Remember the superbowl year we were getting crushed on our east coast games. Fortunately we had the division already locked up. I just want to see improvement each game and see that we are headed in the right direction.
Insert epic quote here: "I got nothin'"
Whiz put himself in the hot seat.
Whisenhunt hurt himself with some fans with his smug smile and cavalier attitude while torpedoing Leinart. He actually appeared to enjoy pulling the rug out from under. That was my take.
The HC, of course, enjoys job security and it shows. 1 and 3 record? No problem, this a growth process, we are improving (read: 1 or 2 throw away seasons). Arizona Cardinals new motto: Patience!
Bidwill getting uneasy?
Sando has a write up on Whisenhunt and what Bidwill expect of him. If I was Coach Whisenhunt I would bring a bag of ice to try and cool his seat down a little bit.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest
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