Kolb still stinks, but our youth looks promising
by INSOMAN1ATIC on Oct 30, 2011 10:57 PM MDT
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PrintWell this has to be the hardest defeat to swallow this season. We opened the game up at Baltimore absolutely dominating both sides of the ball in the first half, then the dream turned into a nightmare. The coach who needs to be shown the door first is Mike Miller since our play calling was absolutely terrible all 2nd half, please note coach Miller, if you have a two posession lead please don't put it on your QB's shoulders (they are far far to small to handle it) and pass on first down. I get the conception that it may catch a defense by surprise but when this arm chair expert knows your passing I can only imagine how much professionals know about your tendencies. We were simply outcoached all second half.
About our talent, I was beginning to think we just do not have the talent in the right places to win this season; however with Scho and Cho spreading tackles, forcing a fumble, racking two sacks, generating pressure, and even smothering in coverage on a few plays, I ask myself why in the F#ck! have they not been seeing more playing time from the get go. Turns out Joey Porter sitting out came with writing on the wall, but I'm calling for Haggans to see more time on the bench. Offensively Beanie really does look like he can be right in the mix with AP and DMC, but at the very least he's striking fear into DB's. Honorable mention to the performance of Daryl Washington he was all over the field today just like we will need him to be if we are going to be a top 5 unit.
Last but not least the position debate that is driving the wedge here at ROTB. It is time to put Kevin Kolb on the bench and wish him well at the end of the season. I know he hasn't had the time, but going on his 5th season in the league he should be making better decisions, and if we are going to have a QB tossing balls down the field, let's put the QB in that can zip it 50 yards down field. If your reading Whiz please make it Skelton time for this fan's sanity. Let's give the kid a chance to save the season instead of waiting until the season is lost to give him some playing time.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Revenge of the Birds' (ROTB) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of ROTB's editors.
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i've been as critical of kolb as anyone.
but i’ve realized its time to lay off of him. He’s our QB for the foreseeable future, we just need to get him some better protection and another weapon to throw to, and then see what he can do. He showed guts in this game, i just feel like this team has been so close to picking up wins, they’re bound to figure it out during this season, or next.
in terms of play calling, the only thing i can’t understand is why we are trying to work the ball down the field so much. We can’t provide enough protection for kolb to have adequate time, so i don’t get why we’re trying so hard. I’d really like to be able to look at the coaches tape to see what the hell was going on. How could we take that many sacks? Why was kolb not checking it down? who were the hot receivers? Our offense is just so WEIRD. How they function, i mean.
How they *try* to function, hah
Every time we line up with an empty backfield, all the defense has to beat it is blitz a little bit. Eventually Kolb may be able to make them pay, but he hasn’t so far (or he doesn’t do it consistently enough), and the protection just doesn’t hold up long enough without someone in to chip or a back in to help, yet we keep doing it. Every time we line up in an empty shotgun I’m just going to cover my eyes and wait for the drive to stall, I swear.
I’m with ya here, though. It looks like the offense they want to run but just aren’t capable of executing.
Woah, woah, woah
Beanie ranking up there with AP and DMC? DMC maybe but I don’t think this season alone can put him in the same class as AP. I hope one day he can be as good as him but he needs to stay healthy!
Acho and Schofield had a nice day that is for sure. They showed up in limited time in Pittsburgh as well. I want to be cautiously optimistic about what I am seeing because it has been in limited time…. I personally think it was just stubborn Whiz keeping the rookies on the bench to favor the vets. Hopefully this production will force the hand, if the current 6 losses already hasn’t.
I have come to realize with Kolb that I need to pump the breaks on him. I accept the fact he is not worth the 2nd round pick and DRC. But with this line and this offense and its playcalling its hard for me to completely write the guy off. With his injury we might get to see Skelton so you can get your wish but we will just have to see how he performs. Not much else could go wrong in a 1-6 season though so I can’t 100% say Skelton would do worse, but I would believe so.
Since this is a youth movement thread I just wanted to give a shoutout for Rob Housler and Anthony Sherman. Love what I am seeing out of them both! Hopefully they don’t miss next week or beyond.
I enjoy INSOMAN1ATIC's viewpoints mostly, especially on Kolb.
I usually disagree with him, but it makes it more fun that way and you learn more by listening to opposing arguments, so thanks for that INSOM!
Beanie up there with AP does show that you are certifiably crazy. He has looked good this season though and I hope he can start staying healthy year in and year out but let’s not compare him to the best in the league just as we shouldn’t compare Kolb to the best in the league.
We knew what we were getting. A QB who was going to have some growing pains and would have to adjust to a new offense in a hurry. He looked better yesterday than he has all season. Yes, he still drives me crazy at times (the first play of the game when he got sacked/fumbled the ball when he could have just stepped to his right and he would have been fine) but he makes some throws and plays that none of our qb’s did last year.
Bottom line, he has a free pass at least up until the end of the season. You don’t invest that much without giving them at least that.
by Superfizzogotflow on Oct 31, 2011 7:50 AM MDT up reply actions
Beanie's running hard enough,
the coaching isnt doing him any favors, but him staying healthy is the big issue DMC had the same exact problems
Formerly known as Cardsfan928, If you wanna grab a quick game of madden, my screenname is also my Xbox name.
by INSOMAN1ATIC on Oct 31, 2011 6:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Kolb looked better against Baltimore than he has all season?
I watched the game and came away with the exact opposite view. He had his worst performance yet.
If I'm crazy, then your insane
Formerly known as Cardsfan928, If you wanna grab a quick game of madden, my screenname is also my Xbox name.
I see Beanie as more of a Stephen Jackson type back
Good mix of size, speed, and power. Very physical running style that can result in some nagging injuries, but he will try to fight through them.
Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan
Phoenix Suns, Arizona Diamondbacks, Phoenix Coyotes, Arizona Rattlers fan
[I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Leading the NFL in swagtangibles
by JoeCB1991 on Oct 31, 2011 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
good comparison
and i would be more than happy if Beanie could be our version of Stephen Jackson, only time will tell.
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
Steven Jackson
Without the receiving skills and the balance.
Jackson is one of the best running backs of the past 10 years, I wouldn’t put beanie in that category. They really don’t even run he same, beanie has more explosion than Jackson, but he lacks his vision and balance.
Beanie’s an interesting guy, I don’t know if there is a back in the league that is comparable to him. He’s just a big, fast , powerful guy running the ball. He doesn’t have any instincts out there.
by forget on Oct 31, 2011 11:39 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
i think that vision can be developed
Beanie is still young and IMO his vision will only get better. I would say that you can even see an improvement in his vision throughout this season, same with his balance. He seems to be able to stay on his feet better than the first couple games when a shoestring tackle prevented a huge run.
The way i see it, although this is a huge generalization, there are two “types” of running backs, power backs and speed/elusive backs. Speed backs like Lesean Mccoy, Chris Johnson, Jamaal Charles. Power Backs like Hillis, Jackson, and Beanie. And then there are backs that do it all, like AP and Fred Jackson.
While back is distinctly different in certain aspects, the overarching characteristic of backs can be described in a general way
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
I don't think vision can be developed
Its just something you’re born with. Same thing with balance, if he hasnt figured it out by now, i dont think its possible for him. Most running backs do their damage in their first four seasons in the league. There isn’t much that running backs need (or can) to develop once they get to the league, except blocking.
by forget on Oct 31, 2011 1:23 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
well i guess we just have different opinions
and no amount of arguing is likely to change our opinions. I think we can agree on one thing though, its a hell of a lot of fun to see beanie run over DBs?
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
by GreaZzy on Oct 31, 2011 1:53 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Come on now
AP isn’t the greatest pass catcher, I’d say the best all around backs are Gore and MJD
Formerly known as Cardsfan928, If you wanna grab a quick game of madden, my screenname is also my Xbox name.
by INSOMAN1ATIC on Oct 31, 2011 6:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Come on Joe!
We both know, deep down, that the Cards could be at least a .500 team with decent coaching and playcalling. The mix of plays and schemes have ended in loss after loss. Somebody in charge, on the sidelines, is hard headed and demands the Cardinals conform to his vision, wins be damned.
You guys call me a bandwagoner, I am not. I am a Cardinals fan wannabe but Whiz and his style coupled with his antics while releasing players has turned me bitter to him and his regime. Tolerating come from ahead losses is not my strong suit. Tolerating a beligerant over rated losing HC is totally beyond me. (Smith/Gore & Co. scored only 20 but won by 10.)
Cards need Kolb!
Kolb needs to remain in place for a couple more seasons and help build a bullpen of relievers. A different HC could do wonders with Kolb, Fitz, Beanie and LSH and a revamp of the D would be in order.
“It’s not the veggies in the salad that are awful, it’s the dressing.”
Patrick Peterson anyone?
Or maybe he his electrifying punt return and consistent improvement makes us forget that he is a rookie? Good problem to have.
the last two games
PP21 has really impressed me. unfortunately, it looks like Jefferson has regressed at the same rate that Peterson has progressed
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
Well
To be fair, boldy was makin some sick catches on back shoulder throws. Not too much u can do about that. I wouldn’t say one horrible game erases a pretty solid first season by AJ
by forget on Oct 31, 2011 10:40 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Boldin is good!
It’s no wonder Whiz couldn’t wait to dump him and why he kept him on the bench. Now he has another excuse, “I don’t have a #2 receiver!” It can’t be my fault that we lose, it just can’t be.
Yesterday’s game, against the Ravens, shows just how good Whisenhunt really is. He’s awesome!
Why make things up
Whiz didn’t dump him. He wanted #1 WR money and we had to choose between him and Fitz. I’ll take Fitz any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
It would have been incredibly stupid to lock up that much money at the WR position.
Jessesb all grown up
by Jesse Reynolds on Oct 31, 2011 1:28 PM MDT up reply actions
So how much did the Cards finally lock up at WR? For the sake of the team, they should have worked with both Boldin and Fitz, not dump one in favor of the other. Two will always be more than one.
two will always cost more than one
if we tried to sign both Fitz and Boldin we wouldn’t have enough salary cap room to spend money where we need it, O-Line and OLB. You can always find talented WR in the draft. Thats the way the NFL operates, you have to find good talent for a good price. When the price is to much, move on to new younger talent
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
Agreed
Our problem isn’t WR’s, or lack of them.
It’s time. Not enough time for Kolb to throw, too much time for other QB’s to throw.
We need a new OL, that’s our problem.
Jessesb all grown up
by Jesse Reynolds on Oct 31, 2011 3:51 PM MDT up reply actions
If the Cards repair the D wins would come now!
The Defense is giving up 26 points a game. This is too much for this Offense to overcome. Is the math that difficult. The O line must be addressed but the fatal blows are being allowed by the D.
Some comments from Kiper
MelKiperESPN Mel Kiper Jr.
Patrick Peterson continues to excel in coverage for AZ, while proving to be a dynamic punt ret. The Ravens went after Jefferson & Marshall.
MelKiperESPN Mel Kiper Jr.
@JeffRoemer There is really only one CB (Revis) who isn’t beaten. Peterson has big time star written all over hm. Outstanding the last 2 wks
Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan
Phoenix Suns, Arizona Diamondbacks, Phoenix Coyotes, Arizona Rattlers fan
[I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Leading the NFL in swagtangibles
Good to see
Someone in the national media give some attention to PP. He didn’t deserve it early on, granted, but he should be in the discussion of rookie awards this year.
Absolutely
I love what PP is doing this year! Early on he struggled but strong performances against Mike Wallace and agains the Ravens and Q so it looks like he will continue to trend up. He is a beast in PR and I wouldn’t be shocked if he tied or even broke the Cardinals PR record in his rookie season alone! I only left PP out of my comment because his play the last 2 weeks speak for themselves. Just needs to cut down on those penalties, which I also expect to be seeing.
The one thing about AJ I don’t understand is why he slips on so many plays. I hate looking at the replay to see what the hell happened on defense and seeing AJ fall down cutting any which way,
All he needs is one more to tie it
He also leads the NFL in punt return average right now with about 19 yards per return.
Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan
Phoenix Suns, Arizona Diamondbacks, Phoenix Coyotes, Arizona Rattlers fan
[I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Leading the NFL in swagtangibles
If there was a game you want to change QB this would be it.
by McCollum, Travis on Oct 31, 2011 8:13 AM MDT reply actions
Don't matter.
Been there, done that! Until the HC and playcalling change it dosen’t matter who plays QB.
Why
He was sacked 6 times and pressured more by the best ranked defense in football. Give the guy some protection before we decide to bench him.
Overreact much everyone?
Jessesb all grown up
by Jesse Reynolds on Oct 31, 2011 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions
No overreacting,
Are record says it all, and Kolb has ample protection a majority of the plays
Formerly known as Cardsfan928, If you wanna grab a quick game of madden, my screenname is also my Xbox name.
by INSOMAN1ATIC on Oct 31, 2011 6:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Last season after the season was lost
the only reason that i continued to optimistically watch the game was the hope that Skelton would get put in. That being said, barring injury, we have to give Kolb at least a full season. We gave up a lot to get him, and giving up on Kolb at this point seems a little crazy, if he doesn’t show anything in regards to improvement by seasons end, then have an open competition in camp, let Skelton earn the starters job if he can outplay Kolb.
I think part of the collective dissatisfaction with Kolb is that we all thought that we would take the division this year, maybe if we had have tampered our expectations we wouldn’t be giving Kolb such grief.
All in all, its Kolb time this season, and that shouldn’t change, next season though is a different story
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
Everyone needs to settle down
All this overreaction is killing me. It’s like Maxamania or Tebowing.
Kolb was sacked 6 times while playing the best ranked defense in the NFL.
He hasn’t been playing well, granted, but not many would succeed behind our line. Maybe a HoF kind of player (reference drop).
I am a big Whiz supporter but not addressing the line has been what is ruining this offense. Not addressing OLB needs is what is ruining the defense. He will probably lose his job because of these things.
Playcalling, execution, etc isn’t our problem. Players not making plays and not getting the right players is what our problem is.
Jessesb all grown up
Look at Denver with Tebow.
The fans got their way. They still lose. Now they will probably change aThink of Detroit last year. They had a good team, they still ended up losing a lot of games. Did they scrap everything and start all over? No. They kept fighting and now its starting to pay off.
Insert epic quote here: "I got nothin'"
+1
I believe this team can be good, but like AZ retiree has pointed out sooo many times is that change needs to be had. We just disagree where.
I think the coaches are fine.
Give us a line that is even mediocre and we would have a better record.
Jessesb all grown up
by Jesse Reynolds on Oct 31, 2011 3:53 PM MDT up reply actions
good point
we have some really good players on this team. Just gotta build with and around them. Once we solidify our O-Line, improve our pass rushing (i like what i saw from cho & scho), and Kolb improves we should become a solid team again.
This team has some of the pieces to the puzzle, now those pieces have to learn how to close out and win football games. Next year these heartbreaking collapses will turn into wins
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
Defense!
Just do it, and I’ll pretend the whole Whiz thing was a big misunderstanding.
build own identity
You’re correct GreaZzy. I do see a lot of young talent on this team but it must be groomed properly. Rather than try and be the Steelers, we should try working to our player’s strengths. Grimm’s OL with the big Hoggs isn’t the cure for today’s fast pace game. I’m noticing how speed is killing big O-lines & it was also evident in the monday night game last night. We shouldn’t just play starters all the time and allow the young hungry players to rotate in more. It will provide more players a sense of contribution while creating less stress when injury to key players come into play. This strategy is paying big dividens in detroit. The good teams creat depth by doing this. The OL is the key to everything. Our QBs from Neil Lomax, through Plummer, Warner until now, have had to run for their lives on every snap. When will the Cards understand this?
completely agree
im not sure about this year, but last year we had the heaviest O-Line in the NFL. not a good sign when your going against insane speed rushers
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
Take a lesson Whiz
Kurt Gibson rotated his stating lineup to include every player on the roster. In the end he built a team of veterans with experience. They even made the playoffs. He did not wait for injuries to force players off the bench. He utilized all the talent available.
The ground game has been reduced due to Beanie’s health. I say help the other RBs generate rushing yards by calling plays designed for them individually.
If platooning your QBs brings wins, do it. Keep the drive alive. These are tough times and require innovative thinking.
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