Should We Trade Darnell Dockett???
by cschiemann on Nov 29, 2011 1:42 PM MST
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I first off want to say that I am the biggest Darnell Dockett fan out there. I think he is a good defensive tackle. Saying this I believe trading him would be whats best for our team. I think 90 can get a second and a 4th pick in the draft this year by trading him to a 4-3 team which I believe he is more suited for (preferably someone we never face). I would go out there with the if you give me a second and forth then you can have him if you give me a second and fifth then go to hell Ill keep him.
Why Trade him:
- When Dan Williams comes back we will have a replacement in David Carter that would suffice. Of corse still draft one in the later rounds for depth.
- As we all know our OLB is a Weakness which I believe is much improved with Acho and Schofield in the game they may screw up but I no longer think its a weakness, and may even be a strength for the next 5 to 10 years.
- We need a second round draft pick. (more on this later)
- Large contract that if we can get equal or maybe a little less performance for a huge price drop why not?
- Its the Bill Belichick Way of doing business trade him while hes hot if he doesn't fit into the plans of the defense.
Why Keep Him:
-Very dynamic pass rusher and is in the back field a lot making plays behind the line of scrimmage.
- Team Leader in the Locker room and highly respected here in Arizona.
-Commonly draws double teams which is why his reduction in sacks but it keeps Washington free to make plays.
Now I say Trade him for 3 reasons:
1) Value is High and We need a second round pick this year.
2) We need to free up a little cap room for a WR opposite Larry Fitzgerald
3) His play doesn't fit well with a 5-2 defense
Why Do We so desperately need a second round pick?
- This coming year as far as I can tell will be very deep in Offensive Tackles. I think our first round pick should be a Left Tackle because they are hard to find and we need one badly. Our Second Round Pick should be used on Right tackle which should net us a very good right tackle.
Yours stupid cschiemann.....
I think I am being very smart. Trade a tackle that no longer fits into our defense for two tackles that could possibly be with our line for the next 10 years. Get cap room to pick up a Wide Receiver in FA to complement Larry for 2 or 3 years and as a bonus get a 4th round pick for what ever pleases your fancy (i would suggest a back up D tackle). Trade one player for 3 players to fill the biggest weakness of this team.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Revenge of the Birds' (ROTB) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of ROTB's editors.
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As A Side Note
I would like to get more for him Like a First and 3rd. If Rod Graves can pull that off with a bidding war between teams we should give him a bonus. But as it stands right now I think we draw the line at 2 and 4th any lower and Id rather keep him.
Dockett will not be traded
We just picked up a $15 million option earlier this year which shows the FO is committed to keeping 9-0. He is one of the most vocal leaders on our defense and an integral part of our team chemistry. His contract isn’t that huge ($6.1M cap hit in ‘11 with a $1M cap hit increase each year until he is an UFA in ’16). We have a decent amount of cap room for ’12, even before cutting Levi Brown’s $17M cap hit so there is no need to pinch pennies.
David Carter replacing Dockett would not suffice. That is a tremendous downgrade. With the restructuring of the rookie wage scale, draft picks are even more valuable than in previous years. I don’t believe Dockett could fetch a 2nd round pick
by cardinalbrown on Nov 29, 2011 2:11 PM MST reply actions 4 recs
I agree with this
The FO seems like they want to keep him around and I would be a lot more for this but the defense really seems to be turning the corner. He is a great leader for the team and I want to see him stick around and keep doing what he is doing. I would love to get some extra picks but it won’t be like trading a QB… You get much less. Dockett doesn’t get the credit for a lot of what we do but he makes his presence known.
This team is being constructed on D like the Steelers
Dockett is integral to the process, just like Keisel and Smith were/are in Pittsburgh. Big Daddy Dan Williams (Wilkinson was a bust, therefore he loses the title) is the plug in the middle. Washington flows freely to make plays.
If anything, you should be pissed that Aldon Smith, Quinn or Kerrigan weren’t the picks. A pass rush would do wonders for this defense. I like Acho and Schoefield, but they are still massive run liabilities, check profootballfocus.com for just how bad.
Here is how a 5-2 works.
The Only thing OLBs are responsible for on 5-2 (which lets be honest wiz’s 3-4 is more 5-2 than anything. is outside contain… if a running back crosses your face you go with him (so next time you see a running back standing all alone waiting on a pass to check down this is the job of the OLB… remember that).. if they are running the sweep you keep him inside of you. That is where your bid fat guys inside are there for. They are there to “occupy” the linemen to allow linebackers to flow freely to the ball. Outside linebackers need to be superior pass rushers and be able to stand up a TE or offensive tackle long enough to keep the play inside of you to make the back cut back to the flowing line backers.
Now a case for keeping docket is if he is smart enough and he sees a pulling guard a smart tackle would see him pull grab him and follow him down the line to the play that is how you stop a good run team. I think dockett is great at that.
no way on this trade, he allows our line backers to perform, and they will only get better. I want that second round draft and saw on a web site the following. That lets look at a team needing a OB in the upcoming draft. Trade down to give them a shot at the OB they want. We get their first and a second, wow we get our stud line man in first two rounds.
Taking nothing from Campbell but
How good would he be if not for Dockett? I don’t doubt Campbell would be a dominate presence but with Dockett taking double teams Campbell is able to make more plays.
I was thinking about that last night
No doubt Campbell benefits by having Dockett on the other side. I still believe Campbell would be a beast moving forward if we did trade Dockett, but without Dockett he never would’ve reached the level of play he has this year. Dockett pretty much developed Campbell and helped him realize his potential IMO. Calais Campbell is quietly having the best season of all interior Lineman in the NFL including suh, ngata, ratliff, dockett, smith.
by cgcardzfan on Nov 29, 2011 5:03 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Campbell's breakout year happens to be his contract year
Funny how those things work out. Antonio Smith did the same thing in ‘08 and got rewarded with a 5yr/$35M contract. We’re going to have to pay Campbell very similarly to keep him.
Noticed you mentioned Campbell is having the best season of interior lineman. Haven’t seen him line up inside other than the 2 down lineman formation with 9-0 and Campbell. Not taking anything away from the awesome season on special teams and defense he is having. He goes to the top of my Pay the Man! board
by cardinalbrown on Nov 29, 2011 5:17 PM MST up reply actions
Well I meant out of all 3-4 linemen and 4-3 inside linemen... my mistake
Every game it looks like his price tag goes up. He is definately worth every penny and isn’t one of those guys you pay then they stop caring. Dockett has instilled the attitude that has made him one of the most feared linemen in Calais.
by cgcardzfan on Nov 29, 2011 5:35 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Dockett
was named the most versatile defender by one of the national sports sites a while back.
Formerly known as Cardsfan928, If you wanna grab a quick game of madden, my screenname is also my Xbox name.
by INSOMAN1ATIC on Nov 29, 2011 5:36 PM MST up reply actions
Imo
Dockett is the best Dlinemen in the NFL. And in a 4-3 it would be obvious to everybody. The ONLY guy I could put in front of dockett is suh, and he’s having an underwhelminf season at best. Dockett is the model of what a Defensive Lineman should be. Only if he had a little more length……
by cgcardzfan on Nov 29, 2011 5:52 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
If we could get a 1st and 2nd for Dockett,
I would be tempted, but anything less than forget it.
Formerly known as Cardsfan928, If you wanna grab a quick game of madden, my screenname is also my Xbox name.
Why stop there
2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders
by cardinalbrown on Nov 29, 2011 5:53 PM MST up reply actions
2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders? pssshhhh seriously?
I want Suh, megatron, and stafford! For Dockett and Porter straight up!
by cgcardzfan on Nov 29, 2011 5:55 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
He may play a 4-3 in detroit
but Suh is an animal. I’m sure he could play anywhere on our 3-4 defensive line.
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
by GreaZzy on Dec 2, 2011 9:34 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Hmmm...
What about Dockett for Pettigrew?
Formerly known as Cardsfan928, If you wanna grab a quick game of madden, my screenname is also my Xbox name.
Yes we need OTs.
Now that Gaither is available should we go after him?
If you don't have anything good to say about the Cards this season, you'd be correct.
by hevchv on Nov 29, 2011 6:42 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Yes.
What is the worst that can happen? We get another sub par tackle. Gaither stands a great chance of being better than what we’ve got now. Still wonder how debilitating the back injury has been but you don’t know until you give him a shot.
I would only do this in a perfect situation.
Dockett means a lot to the Cards. I do think he might like going to a place where he could showcase his talent a little more, since he doesn’t show his worth on paper in a 3/4 even though he is still an outstanding player. If we could get a high 2nd rounder and a good young wr or pass rusher I would say yes. It’s not going to happen though so the point is probably moot.
Wow that was unexpected.....
I didnt realize that docket was so untouchable in the fans eyes. I agree with you that Dockett does the things to make this team better if you don’t see it in the stats sheet on Sunday. Now I didnt realize that Dockett’s cap hit was so small to be honest I thought It was closer to 10 million with the contract he signed last year. Now that being said I still think we try to quietly trade him. I am thinking as tackles go he has about 2 or 3 years left at his current level. I am thinking long term here If this draft class of tackles is as good as people are saying we can get a pace or ogden on the left and a good right tackle for the next 10 years we can win a lot of super bowls. Im thinking long term.
He has no value
Thats all. Do we has someone better than him? No, so why get rid of him?
by forget on Nov 29, 2011 8:36 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I personally don't think any of the top 3 tackles in this class are great
Drafting o-lineman early in the draft just doesn’t pan out too well. For every 1 Orlando Pace there are 10 Jason Smith or Levi Browns.
by cardinalbrown on Nov 29, 2011 8:38 PM MST up reply actions
teams also tend to reach for tackles too
because it is a position of need for so many teams, tackles get drafted much higher than they should go. If they were drafted where they should have been, they would be considered reasonably good value, but because they were reached for, they become busts. Take Levi for example, if he was drafted in the 20s he would be pretty good value. Good run blocker, below average pass blocker, probably better suited for the interior line. That is good value, if he was drafted where he should have been
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Even if Levi was taken late in the 1st round
He’d be considered a bust because of his performance. When you spend a first round pick (heck, even an early round pick) you expect those guys to be key contributors for a long time.
by cardinalbrown on Nov 29, 2011 10:02 PM MST up reply actions
I would disagree
but i understand your point. Here’s my take. Top 10 (or even top 15) draft picks are supposed to be the big ticket, perennial Pro-Bowl players. Those are the players who are heavily scrutinized and often get bust labels. Once you get later in the first round, its more difficult, IMO, to call a player a bust. Those teams drafting in that area are good teams looking to improve, not bad teams looking for a difference maker. Levi would be considered average IMO, if he was drafted later.
He hasn’t panned out to be the difference maker we needed, and clearly is a bust for us, and for where we drafted him. But it is because we drafted him so high, that we needed him to be our LT. If he had have fallen, he would likely been able to move to a position better suited for him. Late 1st round picks aren’t usually labeled as busts, unless they completely disappear from the NFL.
that’s just my opinion, and really, its all just semantics on your opinion of ‘bust’ vs my opinion of ‘bust’.
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
I have to say
Anywhere in the 1st round, if you are deemed (arguably) the worst in the league (starting) at your position, you are a bust. Even late first rounders because most teams only get 1 1st round pick, so you have to make sure you draft quality. Obviously these are all just opinions, but I can’t stomach having the worst player at a position being a first round pick.
at least he's starting, and still on the team
better than many other former first rounders. Obviously you want to draft great players with every pick but…wait, am i honestly defending Levi Brown. Oh my goodness, i’ve gone insane.
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
Not to make brown a pin cushion either,
but our playcalling has done nothing but play to his weaknesses since he arrived in Arizona.
Formerly known as Cardsfan928, If you wanna grab a quick game of madden, my screenname is also my Xbox name.
by INSOMAN1ATIC on Nov 30, 2011 4:39 PM MST up reply actions
We couldn't get anything for DD anyway.
He MAYBE commands a 4th round pick
by forget on Nov 29, 2011 7:59 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Alright,
how about Dockett and a 3rd for Michael Oher and Ben Grubbs
Formerly known as Cardsfan928, If you wanna grab a quick game of madden, my screenname is also my Xbox name.
Grubbs is an UFA this offseason
Oher has had a very inconsistent career so far
by cardinalbrown on Nov 29, 2011 8:34 PM MST up reply actions
No
we’re not trading Dockett. The guy is unblockable. Just, no. People are basing his play off the stat sheet far too much. Dockett is like our Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel, except much much more dangerous.
He won't get traded
He is doing his job. Not getting the sacks, but he is taking up double teams and he is getting into the backfield on a lot of plays to pressure the QB or disrupt runs in the backfield.
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3-4 DL aren't supposed to get sacks anyways
Dockett does a darn good job as a defensive lineman in our scheme. He won’t put up the numbers that he could in a 4-3, but that doesn’t diminish his value to the Cardinals. His contribution allows other players to get the flashy sack numbers
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+1
He was a big reason we were able to stop Steven Jackson on those critical 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 runs in our first meeting versus the Rams. He moved the pile and allowed the players behind him to make plays.
Trading him not only would hurt the defense, but it would hurt the teams moral. He is our version Ray Lewis. He is a the leader of the defense and consistently performs at a high level. And you know he always good for a good game against good competition (ie the Cowboys)
Remember his 3 sacks in the SB?
Jessesb all grown up
by Jesse Reynolds on Nov 29, 2011 11:36 PM MST up reply actions
Exactly
I think many people undervalue what Darnell does for the team in a leadership role. Watch the games, it is always Dockett rallying the troops and getting in guys faces to put forth a good effort. He is a great example for everyone in how he works and prepares for Sundays. Oh yeah, and he is a freaking BEAST.
I Understand Darnell Dockett is A Dynamic Player....
I look back at the Ravens Teams that won the Superbowl and They had big bodies to take up space. I feel like we can find those types of players to fill the spot keep the linemen off of linebackers which is key of down linemen in any 3-4 scheme. We have one in Williams / Carter. I would just rather see what I can get for him now because the shelf life for d linemen is 10 years. This is why the Patriots are Super bowl contenders every year they know when to trade a man (Seymour to Raiders for first round draft pick) when its unlikely for him to make a huge impact for very much longer. If I was Rod Graves I would see who wants him now. You guys are stuck on he is a good player you don’t see we won’t win a Superbowl with him on this team because he will either leave after next contract expires (so he can go win a super bowl and big pay day) or he will get injured or diminished skills to the point of keeping a older guy on the team because of what he did for you before. Don’t be stuck in your ways… YES Dockett is a good player, YES He is a team leader, NO we wont win a Superbowl while he is here, and YES we should trade him right now because I am about Winning SUPERBOWLS!
well we have Dockett until 2015
and we’re not at the superbowl contender level yet, so trading dockett this offseason would just further set this team back. If we can’t put together a superbowl contender by 2015, then i will be shocked. We have some good pieces in place. If we add a few more playmakers, solidify our line, and get more consistent quarterback play, we will be back in the playoffs
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
This
We have been losing key pieces over the last few years. How are we supposed to have any continuity moving forward if we keep trading/releasing/what have you to all our good player?. I completely understand your argument but at this point in time we need to continue to build on what we have. There are some great young players and they will be flourishing while Dockett still can be effective. I would love to get some more draft picks but I really feel like this team isn’t TOO far away from being a really good team.
Need some better QB play, better tackles, another LB, and a backup SS (for A dubs decline). Achieve this, and we have a good team (IMO). If we were contenders, then your move is absolutely the best move to make by trading him while you can get something nice for him. Remember, the Patriots weren’t a well under .500 team when they were making that Seymour trade. The defense will seriously regress without Dockett.
I found something quite interesting actually
I have been pleased with his play, that is not what this is about
He is just getting up there in age and I am thinking ahead so there is not a huge drop-off. Of course, there aren’t Adubs that come around every day so there’s that as well.
sorry if that came off as accusing you of not liking Wilson
i just wanted to post this somewhere. I’ve read many people who are not please with Wilson, with one person listing 10 safeties he considered better. I just wanted to show that Wilson still can get it done
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
Wilson is under contract through 2013.
There is no clear successor to his position on the roster. Looking ahead to develop a player to take his place is perfectly reasonable. It’s how you build a perrenial contender. Wilson is still playing at a high level. It’s good to see him get some props. I wouldn’t want the team waiting until he hits a Porteresque decline before looking for the next in line. Better if that player is here by 2013 and ready to step up in 2014.
I agree completely
I saw an interesting mock draft recently. We were drafting at 8 and Martin and Kaili were both taken. The mock draft had us taking CB Claibourne from LSU. At first i didn’t like it, but the more i thought about it, the more i liked the pick. Peterson could learn SS under Wilson until Wilson’s time is done, and we can develop our other CBs. A Secondary with Peterson, Toler, Claibourne, Jefferson, and Rhodes would be very stout.
Toler, Jefferson, and Claibourne are the more prototypical CBs anyways, with good hips and ball skills. The regular guys who have been successful in the NFL as CBs. Peterosn could utilize his natural ability and play very good SS IMO. i really like Claibourne if Martin and Kalil have been picked
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
I'm not so down with the idea of moving Peterson to safety.
If the hands down best player available at our pick is a corner then great. I’m not that confident about Toler and the rest that I would look askance at adding another great prospect at the position. I’d rather they picked up a safety that was worthy of a top ten pick than try to move Peterson around and get behind the learning curve.
Last time we moved a CB to Safety it worked pretty well for us.
Antrel Rolle is one of the most dangerous players with the ball in his hands. Peterson would be a good FS and Marshall has showed some worth at Safety as well. Maybe next season we see where these two fit in at those positions have Toler, Jefferson, Adams, and Butler play. If it doesn’t work out then in the Preseason we have a year to figure things out.
Actually given his physical style of play,
Toler may be able to make that transition.
Formerly known as Cardsfan928, If you wanna grab a quick game of madden, my screenname is also my Xbox name.
Peterson
So love the idea of Peterson at free safety. Between his plays on the ball in the air for interceptions his speed to shut down runners feel cant lose situation. Wilson could help him make the adjustment. for me I think of his becoming our free safety like what the steelrs have now
technically Wilson is our SS
so that would be the position that Peterson would learn, but FS and SS aren’t that different really
Follow me on Twitter at @AlexDavidson68
Well he did start the season off with an injury,
and has had to learn like everyone else in this new scheme.
Formerly known as Cardsfan928, If you wanna grab a quick game of madden, my screenname is also my Xbox name.
don't trade dockett...
why cut out the heart of the defense….that makes no sense you want a second round pick get rid of kolb he has not lived up to expectations.the cards defense is one player away from something special.dockett and campbell are special,why ruin it,if you want a second round pick,look at the offense,not the defense.nuff said
by Christopher Simms on Nov 30, 2011 5:28 PM MST reply actions
no trade no way no how, his play continues to assist our young improving line backers. His piling up the ol line allows our young speeders to make the plays. As the d learns more of the scheme, we cotniue to rush the passers we will see Dock make more plays as Horton finds other ways to use him. Give this D time and corners time to improve, both corners and line backers the key
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