Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: NFL Players Ready To Welcome Gay Teammate

QB Notes from an in-state rival fan

I listen to KTAR everyday when driving to and from job sites.  I heard Doug Franz recently make a comparison of Kevin Kolb to Matt Cassel.  It was a great comparison of how Cassel excels in a solid pocket protection scheme with an active running game.  The numbers were strikingly similar, but Kolb actually had better numbers.

Star-divide

Beyond the fact that everyone knows that Kolb needs an active running game and better protection (since the Cards have the worst offensive tackle tandem in the league) there's one major line of thinking that I have yet to hear anyone talk about.  Maybe the Cards coaching staff is just not capable of developing a quarterback.

Take a look at this list:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pittsburgh_Steelers_starting_quarterbacks

Have any of those quarterbacks ever developed into the "elite" status?  I show the Steelers QBs because if you look at the Cardinals coaching staff almost all of them have extensive ties to Pittsburgh.  But the Steeler organization isn't known for impressive QBs.  Big Ben is about as good as they get, but he's not an All-Pro talent QB, he's an All-Pro winner.  He finds ways to win the game.  It's often ugly, it's often lucky, and as was the case against my Seahawks and my wife's Cardinals in the Super Bowl, it is often with the help of the Zebras.  Yes, Terry Bradshaw is a HOFer, but he's the only elite QB of his time from the organization.  Steeler football is shut-your-trap, pound-the-ball, hard-nosed, defensive football.  Kordell Stewart, horrible.  Tommy Maddox, horrible.  Neil O'Donnell, horrible.  Bubby Brister, horrible.

So you might say, "what about Chris Miller?"  But what experience does he have???  I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he can become a good QB coach and that he knows what he's talking about, but this is his FIRST NFL coaching gig.  So time will tell...

So what's the deal with Kolb then?  Why was he viewed as a top notch talent QB?  Well, look at who his coaching staff was in Philly?  Andy Reid, Marty Mornhinweg, Doug Pederson.  Head Coach, AHC/OC, QB coach.  All 3 of them come from the Packer/49er organizations.  Two organizations known for top notch quarterbacks.  Brett Favre, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Aaron Rodgers, Bart Starr, Lynn Dickey, Jeff Garcia.  All of those QBs came from the Packers or 49ers.  (Side note:  Bart Starr and Lynn Dickey were in the GB system before Bill Walsh's disciples left San Fran for Green Bay, so they don't really count).  Joe Montana, Jeff Garcia, and Brett Favre were not the same QBs after they left that system.  Granted age was a factor (and Favre had ONE good year in MN, but Brad Childress was a Reid disciple, so it would make sense that he would fit in that system) for all 3, but you can see the comparison.

One final comparison:  Donovan McNabb.  He flourished under Andy Reid, but clearly has not been the same without Reid.  Even under Shanny (another SanFran product) in Washington he was more comfortable than he was this year in Minnesota.

All these things point to a couple of things:

1.  Kolb was overrated in Philadelphia because of his coaching staff

2.  Kolb has talent that needs to be brought along with the right protection scheme and better talent on the ends of the line

3.  The current Cardinals staff needs to be provided with an established QB (ala Kurt Warner) and not put in a position of having to develop one.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Revenge of the Birds' (ROTB) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of ROTB's editors.

Comment 21 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

big ben...

he’s so underrated!

he’s a top 5 QB in the league! why don’t people give him any credit? it ain’t luck, he’s just good!

and the steelers have had just as much luck with QB’s as the seahawks….a lot of the teams have trouble finding QB’s. Besides the guys coming from Green Bay and San Fran, who else has cranked out great QBs? its hard to find them! if it was so easy, everyone would have a good one!

by forget on Nov 3, 2011 6:57 PM MDT reply actions  

If Matt Cassell is what we want from Kolb we may as well move on from him now, that kind of a QB is not winning you a Superbowl unless you have a Ravens 2000 or Bucs 2002 type defense.

Big Ben is an elite QB, make no bones about it, he is. You note to look at the Steelers list of QB’s, I did, not a single great one there before big ben (Including Bradshaw, though he did have a great verticall passing game to operate in). Also note, the Steelers had gone 20+ years without a Superbowl win beofre they got Big Ben, and had made just one appearence, even with their great defense.

Why was he viewed as a top notch talent? Short answer, becasue he tore up the 23rd ranked Atlanta Falcons defense in 2011. Long answer, because there were a huge number of QB needy teams out there, he had the “only not a starter becasue Vick tore it up” on his side, and he had Andy Reid pimping him out shamelessly.

Kevin Kolb is and never was a top notch QB talent, never, and he never will become a franchise QB.

Philly has a tendency to elevate what their QB’s are capable of, McNabb, Feeley, Garcia, Vick. Kolb. Everyone one of them has played above and beyond what they are truly capable of under Reid at co.

Follow me on twitter @kenthodder

by khodder on Nov 3, 2011 7:55 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

You mean two appearances?

They beat the Seahawks in 2005.

Joe Saunders: "They played a really good game, so hats off to us"

by Skii on Nov 3, 2011 9:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

Big Ben played in that game.

Follow me on twitter @kenthodder

by khodder on Nov 4, 2011 12:25 AM MDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

Well put sir. Kolb is nothing more than DA on steroids.

Formerly known as Cardsfan928, If you wanna grab a quick game of madden, my screenname is also my Xbox name.

by INSOMAN1ATIC on Nov 3, 2011 9:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

i mean really

who would you rather have as QB above Ben? Rodgers, Brady, Manning….maybe Drew Brees. Thats it. Personally I would rate him 4th in that group of guys.

by forget on Nov 4, 2011 1:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

I would still Rate Rivers above him despite this season, just like one good year does not make you elite, one bad does not make you horrible.

Prior to this season Rivers had led the league in YPA for three straight seasons and had posted three straight seasons of a 100+ QB Rating, in 2010 he led the league in Yards and 2008 he led the league in TD’s and TD%.

Right now Rivers has his worst INT% since 2005 when he threw just 22 passes. Something is wrong injury wise with him this season. Still an elite QB however.

Follow me on twitter @kenthodder

by khodder on Nov 4, 2011 2:00 AM MDT up reply actions  

He's the man

But if I had to win one game, I’m taking big Ben over rivers.

by forget on Nov 4, 2011 11:01 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

rivers??? lay off the pipe sir

all those other QBs in that list have super bowl titles, thats y nobody else would include rivers on that list. he is the black sheep, odd man out, and he will be if he ever gets a title, and did i mention how socially awkward he looks throwing a football

by Beardown1983 on Nov 4, 2011 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

So I guess Trent Dilfer is a great QB, he won a ring as a starting QB, how about Brad Johnson.

Winning is a TEAM acheivement, you cannot win without balance, a good QB and good coaching. Right now the Chargers lack any kind of consistent running game, their coaching staff is horrible and their defense is up and down. Rivers carries that team, without him last season they probably end up 2-14 as opposed to 8-8.

Follow me on twitter @kenthodder

by khodder on Nov 5, 2011 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

Rivers is

this generations Marino, he looks good doing it, but never does it when it matters the most.

Formerly known as Cardsfan928, If you wanna grab a quick game of madden, my screenname is also my Xbox name.

by INSOMAN1ATIC on Nov 4, 2011 6:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

I know what you mean,

but if I had my choice of Qb’s I go with Ben, the guy doesn’t crack when the pressure is at it’s most, and the thing that would make him my top choice is his ability to break the would be sack , but this season he seems to be avoiding it ALOT, Isn’t he also 27?

Formerly known as Cardsfan928, If you wanna grab a quick game of madden, my screenname is also my Xbox name.

by INSOMAN1ATIC on Nov 4, 2011 6:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

For starters Ken Whisenhunt was only the OC for the Steelers from 2004. He was TE coach from 2002 till then. Which means you can only look at Ben play. However Ben admitted he was immature and big headed when Whiz was here and didn’t take time to learn the offense. Bruce Arians runs a very similar scheme to Whiz and Ben soared in 2007. Whiz didn’t trust Ben as much and had a killer run game.

Yes Philly had some very good QB coaches and yes his system helps QB once they learn it because it is based on precision. This is why I believe the Cards need a true OC someone who can be in Kolbs head 24/7. Not because ken is calling bad plays but because as a HC he can’t be with Kolb every minute.

How do we explain Joe Montana’s success in KC not running the same offense or Brett Farve’s pre-injury success with the Jets.

 The odd can be stacked against him (Kolb) coming form Reid system but I would need more proof than just QB having done well outside the system.

Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert

by Steel34D on Nov 3, 2011 11:11 PM MDT reply actions  

Since about Since about 2007 Big Ben has been putting up very good statistical numbers

Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan
Phoenix Suns, Arizona Diamondbacks, Phoenix Coyotes, Arizona Rattlers fan
[I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].

Leading the NFL in swagtangibles

by JoeCB1991 on Nov 3, 2011 11:41 PM MDT reply actions  

Hmmm....

The year Whisenhunt left….. Interesting.

by billydacardsfan on Nov 4, 2011 5:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

Unrelated

BA runs the same offensive philosophy. The only difference is Ben matured and he and BA have a good relationship

Huge fan of the Steelers. (that includes "Steelers West")
"If I could start my life over again, I would be a professional football player and you better damn well believe a Pittsburgh Steeler!"- Jack Lambert

by Steel34D on Nov 4, 2011 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

Not like he was bad with Whiz though

Besides the 2006 season where he had 18 TDs and 23 Ints, and that was the year where he had a motorcycle accident that almost killed him during the offseason.

Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan
Phoenix Suns, Arizona Diamondbacks, Phoenix Coyotes, Arizona Rattlers fan
[I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].

Leading the NFL in swagtangibles

by JoeCB1991 on Nov 4, 2011 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Arizona Cardinals blog for SB Nation network. Covering the Arizona Cardinals 24/7. Be a Redbird watcher with us, but please follow our community guidelines

Contact ROTB

Here at RotB we're always looking for new contributors or anyone just willing to give their feedback. If you'd like to become a contributor, create your own weekly segments, or just have a question or concern, contact me at rotb.sbnaz@gmail.com.

Arizona Birdgang Podcast -- Click below to listen to any episode you want!


Head Coach

Jess_root_small Jess Root

My_boy_larry_small Tyler Nickel

Coordinators

8217_1234799911513_1274651091_711766_4686824_n_small CardsFan08

Revan_small JoeCB1991

Assistant Coaches

577d914870be748ea886865adfe932ca_small Jesse Reynolds

Arizona_phoenix_bird_small Skii

Kiwiavatar_small khodder

Small cdeveau

Izzy_reasonably_small_small GreaZzy

Rotb_small Mario Ortiz

Ukulele_small Joe Zuppa

Index_small Alex Mann