Who is going to be the 2011 NFL Draft's Vernon Gholston?
As is the well known story of the NFL Draft, there are future Pro Bowl and Hall of Famers in every draft, and there are those that don't live up to expectations. Picks like Peyton Manning and Patrick Willis, among others, have obviously paid off for their respective teams. Names like Ryan Leaf and Akili Smith obviously come to mind as promising players that ended up as flops. More recently, Vernon Gholston. I remember the 2008 draft as the one where the Cards drafted some kid named Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. The Jets have released Vernon Gholston after three disappointing seasons.
So, the question is: Who is going to be the 2011 NFL Draft's flop?
I would include a poll, but there are way too many possibilities. Keep your choices to possible first rounders.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Revenge of the Birds' (ROTB) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of ROTB's editors.
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Cam Newton for sure
Athleticism and pure speed don’t suit players as well in the NFL as they did in college. His throwing skills are questionable, along with his overall attitude. I hope he’s not the next Jamarcus Russell, but he might be.
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Don't think he will be anything like Russell
Jamarcus was always a lazy big guy. A guy who you can compare him to is Vince Young. Same type of skill set.
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My thought as well
I look at Cam and think “Vince”. Too much of an “I Am The Shit!” attitude.
"The true test of a person's intellligence is how much they agree with you."
Say what you want about what Vince has not done...
On the field, all he has done is simply win.
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I really hate
QB rating, but it can be used for comparison. Vince Young’s career QB rating over his career is 75.7. Yes, he’s won games, but how much of that was him, and how much was the talent on Tennessee?
"Yes, he’s won games, but how much of that was him, and how much was the talent on Tennessee?"
I feel the same way about Mark Sanchez
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Mark Sanchez
is not a good QB. His numbers suggest that he hasn’t improved. I believe Football Outsider’s said that he was the QB that had the most dropped interceptions this year. Something like that 9 were dropped, maybe more. Too lazy to go look it up.
15
http://twitter.com/#!/FO_ASchatz/status/35372820003438592
Just ran updated “dropped interception” numbers. Mark Sanchez has 15. No other quarterback was above EIGHT (!)
DA had 8 of them by the way.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
And that was with starting only 9 games!
Imagine the possibilities if he had finished out the season!
Cam Newton
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Petersen (LSU)
potentially Cam Newton or Mark Ingram as well
by WeDoThisTogether on Mar 3, 2011 11:34 AM MST reply actions
Robert Quinn
Hate to say because we might draft him, but I think his year off is really going to hurt him and I hate it when a team drafts a guy in the top 10 and change his position. If whoever drafts him tries to turn him into a linebacker, fail. I think he deserves to go around the end of the 1st, but we’ll see.
by AlaskanCard on Mar 5, 2011 7:56 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
very good chance he fails IMO, especially if a 3-4 team drafts him
He’d be a guy who hasn’t played a down of football in a year (first red flag) and a guy moving from DE to OLB (always a pick that involves risk). The first point is huge in my mind and I’d hate for our team to take such a huge risk on him that early in the draft.
by Steamin' Beamin' on Mar 10, 2011 11:55 AM MST up reply actions
Miller
His speed and athleticism are enticing but he doesn’t play a very physical game. Like Gholston.
by Jesse Reynolds on Mar 5, 2011 9:56 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
He won't be drafted on the theory that he'll make a good OLB in a 3-4
Unlike Gholston, we already know he can do it.
Vernon Gholston
Many people have mentioned Gholston’s name when they voice reservations about drafting Quinn. People seem to think that since he played DE and had to switch to 3-4 OLB that the switch was the reason he failed. But that is waaaaaaay to simplistic.
VG was a high 1st round draft pick because of his ability to get to the QB in college and because he was a rare physical specimen. His combine numbers were mind-boggling:
6’ 3" 258 lbs. Bench – 37reps Vertical – 41" Broad – 10’ 5" 40 yard – 4.58
His last(Jr) at OSU he had 14 sacks and 15.5 TFL. And even though he did play DE his last year, he had played OLB his Fr. year and played with both his hand in the ground AND standing up as a redshirt Soph even dropping into coverage occasionally. This should have been a no-brainer slam dunk Pro Bowl player.
But he gets to the NFL and fails, not because he couldn’t play LB. He failed because he couldn’t get to the QB, registering ZERO sacks in his 3 years covering 45 games and 5 starts. Just to put that in perspective, since 2008 there have been 3401 sacks by 649 players who recorded at least 1/2 sack and VG had NONE. How was this possible?
Well, if you go back you find that VG had never even picked up a football until his sophmore year in HS and although he was tried at LB it is written in his H.S. combine report, and I quote, “As a sophmore at Cass Tech VG was first tried at LB but was OVERWHELMED by the plays he needed to know to play the position” He played Offensive Guard, not even Tackle, until his senior year where he is moved to defense. So he plays one year of HS defense and 25 starts of college defense and becomes the #6 pick in the draft. So the risk was there because of his lack of experience before he was asked to make the switch back to LB.
But there is more and this is where you have to go to the tape. When you look at him, there is now way you would imagine a 4.58 out of this guy. His speed just doesn’t translate in pads. But something I noticed is even more important, I think. When you watch the tape you see that he lines up all over the field, sometimes over LT sometimes behind the DT’s in the 0 gap, but sometimes over RT. I mean, I understand it, you are trying to get your best player his most advantageous matchup, but when evaluating such a player, how much credit should he get and how much should go to the scheme? Not to mention, when you are lining up over RT you are lining up vs a player who is probably not making it to the next level(most RT’s in the NFL played LT in college). Of the 21-1/2 sacks he had in college, I saw tape of 19 of them: 3 sacks over LT(although he did beat Jake Long once) , 1 sack over center and 15 sacks over RT. So most of his produciton came vs the inferior Tackle of the teams he was playing against. This is why I always feel looking at the tape and looking at the matchups is the most important thing when evaluating a player.
There were other questions about Gholston(lack of passion/taking plays off; lack of pass-rushing moves) not the least of which was that his game was soft and relied too much on speed, but the simple fact that the Jets were taking a reasonably inexperienced player and asking him to not only switch positions but ALSO to switch sides, to a side he is less productive at(playing Pace’s spot over LT), it is not totally surprising when that player does not live up to his potential. To me, VG’s failure had much more to do with how talented a football player he actually was then switching from DE to OLB. He was a workout warrior who played in a defense built for him to succeed in.
Comparing Quinn, someone who started in youth ball, was getting visits from major college’s after his SOPHMORE year in HS(while VG was in his first year of organized ball playing Guard), someone who started 23 games even though he only played two seasons at UNC and someone who always lined up over the opposing teams best blocker at LT(even in HS) is just not a fair comparison.
by toolman234 on Mar 6, 2011 1:28 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Really informative post, thanks.
I had no idea of his history. Still like Von Miller and his speed but would not be shocked to see the bigger Quinn become our pick at 5.
by Birdman from Mesa on Mar 9, 2011 4:37 PM MST up reply actions
I'm gonna go off the board and say Nick Fairley
He’s got a couple serious red flags IMO. He’s had only one really productive season (red flag #1), there are qutestions about his work ethic (red flag #2), he’s a dirty player (red flag #3) and he’s not the smartest kid considering he had to go to a junior college out of high school b/c he didn’t qualify academically for Auburn (red flag #4).
He’s a very boom or bust pick in my mind and he’ll need either a really tough head coach or a veteran DL to ride his ass at the beginning of his career to get the most out of him.
by Steamin' Beamin' on Mar 10, 2011 12:17 PM MST reply actions
Good point
Never thought about Fairley. I could see him as an Albert Haynesworth, who is athletically gifted to play football, but has attitude and authority problems. Guaranteed 2-3 off-field problems in his career.
"When life gives you lemons, I say f**k the lemons and bail."

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