Leinart vs Kolb

by Redbird Nation #1 on Mar 27, 2011 1:11 AM MDT

PREFACE: I know Leinart is gone and is not comming back. I urge you to read the following.

I understand Leinart was a polarizing figure in AZ. To be honest, if I was a 25 year old franchise QB living close to ASU and Scottsdale, Id be in the hot tub with fine women EVERY NIGHT......DURING THE OFFSEASON. Which is when the pics were taken. Any straight red blooded American male who tells you different is full of it.

As a Phoenician I hated Leinart and USC. But after he became a Redbird, I became a fan. Same as with Deuce Lutui. But I digress. For all you clamoring for Kolb, I put together a comparison of Leinarts and Kolbs stats in their first 7 starts( which is how many games I believe Kolb has started).

Comp Att Comp% Yds Td/Int

Leinart: 143 262 55% 1699 7/8

Kolb: 115 189 61% 1197 7/7

Seems pretty even to me. Kolb had a better %, Leinart had more yards. Td/Int about even. Kolb seems to be in the same boat as Leinart where fans either want him badly or dont want to touch him with a 10 foot pole. In my opinion, Leinart earned the chance to start this season and show all of us whether he was going to be a stud or a bust. Ill take Kolb, but after watching a season of Anderson Ill take anyone. Im like the loser the night before the prom. Ill take anyone because anyone is better than no one. In Whiz I still trust, but only for one more year.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Revenge of the Birds' (ROTB) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of ROTB's editors.

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Here's the big difference "gym rat"! Kolb can take

Advantage where lionheart couldn’t because he was to busy being a celeb (which included some good humanitarian stuff too). I think Kolb and Fitz would be dynamic because they would work at it!

by Punisher3190 on Mar 27, 2011 1:20 AM MDT via mobile reply actions

Fitz was hurt for 2 of those 7 games

and still had 2 Td catches and 2 games over 150 yds. I think Leinart/Fitz woulda been a good combo too.

by Redbird Nation #1 on Mar 27, 2011 2:20 AM MDT up reply actions

agreed.

by Cardzfan on Mar 27, 2011 1:42 PM MDT up reply actions

Exactly

Why bother with Kolb, we just ditched someone identical

by Cardsfan928 on Mar 27, 2011 1:35 AM MDT reply actions

Thats kinda what I was getting at

What if Whisenhunt doesnt like Kolb. We cut another 1st rounder?

by Redbird Nation #1 on Mar 27, 2011 2:03 AM MDT up reply actions

Whis wouldn't make the trade if he didn't like him!

Can’t just force a QB down a HC throat and hope it works… Ask Vince Young!

You've been Stroh'd™!!!

by Strohman on Mar 27, 2011 12:21 PM MDT up reply actions

I'm off the 'in Whiz we trust' banter...

Still like him. Still think we have a good coach. Not calling for his head. But he really messed things up big time last year and so the blind trust is gone.

I do look forward to the day when we can move forward with a solid QB. Until then, the ‘Leinart question’ will always be hanging out there…..

by Cardzfan on Mar 27, 2011 1:47 PM MDT reply actions

You compare "check down Charlie" to Kolb...

Wish we could have seen what charle check down would have done cause he still had potential but I dot think you can compare the two…

by Punisher3190 on Mar 27, 2011 3:16 PM MDT via mobile reply actions

Becasue it's not like;

89% of Kolbs completions this year were inside of 10 yards, with, 35% of them coming behind the LOS.

Oh wait. it did, Kolb is as much of a “checkdown Charlie” as Leinart was.

by khodder on Mar 28, 2011 8:12 PM MDT up reply actions

Keep in mind

That Matt Leinart has had 6 more games started than Kevin Kolb, which is why he has more yards.

I still think Matt Leinart would’ve been good here. After Kurt Warner retired, I remember being excited to see Matt Leinart start. It wasn’t until after the season started when I really started missing Kurt Warner. It was a mistake cutting Matt Leinart, but it’s done, and I’m going to move on.

by Skii on Mar 27, 2011 4:16 PM MDT reply actions

I think you missed this part...

For all you clamoring for Kolb, I put together a comparison of Leinarts and Kolbs stats in their first 7 starts( which is how many games I believe Kolb has started).

Just saying.

Other than that, I echo your comments.

by DustGrazer on Mar 27, 2011 6:20 PM MDT up reply actions

Oh wow, missed that

My bad. But I still think Matt Leinart would’ve been good.

by Skii on Mar 27, 2011 10:49 PM MDT up reply actions

Is that counting the game where Kolb was injured against GB?

Leinart also had a few games where he threw a ton of passes like the one against the Vikings where he had 400 yards, that could skew things a little bit.

Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].

by JoeCB1991 on Mar 27, 2011 11:25 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions

There's a live interactive community draft coming up next weekend...

Signups just started today and no Cardinals representative has signed up yet. I represent the Broncos at #2, and since you guys are talking about QBs, I thought I’d stop and see if anyone wants to trade up to #2 to grab yourself a new signal caller??

We have a starting QB and two recent first-round QBs all three on the roster; Now we're gonna reach for another 1st round QB.. a year after spending a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick on a QB. Yeah, you betcha.

by Rodney A on Mar 27, 2011 9:28 PM MDT reply actions

Naw

If someone’s there @ #5, it’ll be enough of a reach.

by tw3kr on Mar 27, 2011 10:05 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

+1000

by Cardsfan928 on Mar 27, 2011 10:29 PM MDT reply actions

I don't know if this matters...

since it seems you’re firmly entrenched in the anti-Kolb camp but your stats are off. You only included the stats for 2010. In two of the games he played in 2010 he played a half only. Against Green Bay to start the season he was concussed after only 10 passes and against Washington he came in relief of an injured Vick after the half. If you truly wanted to compare apples to apples you would eliminate those two games and include the two games he started in 2009. Going by that the stat line would read:

143-229 62% 1690yds 10/10 tds/ints 7.4 YPA

I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.

by no1pipelayer on Mar 28, 2011 2:03 PM MDT reply actions

The numbers did seem a little bit off.

I thought that the stats in the main post were both years.

I also added up the numbers Leinart had in all of his 17 starts, and it wound up being 289 of 511 (56.5%) for 3220 yards, 13 TDs, 15 INTs, and a QB rating of 71.7.

Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].

by JoeCB1991 on Mar 28, 2011 3:54 PM MDT up reply actions

Leinarts numbers...

That is an indictment in itself… More INT’s than TD’s… 56 comp %, and passer rating of 72? Certainly not starter worthy, not winning QB play (generally 90 rating or better)…

You've been Stroh'd™!!!

by Strohman on Mar 28, 2011 7:36 PM MDT up reply actions

Not horrible

For a rookie QB starting in his first year in the NFL behind a seive of an OL, no RB and no TE. He had help in the shape of Fitz and Boldin, but outside of that, our offense was a blackhole for talent.

by khodder on Mar 28, 2011 8:13 PM MDT up reply actions

Besides one game (the Titans game)

All of those starts were from his first two seasons (and he broke his collarbone in week 5 of year two). The numbers aren’t really that far off of what people like Flacco, Sanchez, Stafford, and some other recent rookies have done in their first year.

Rodgers was great when he became the starter in 08, even though the Pack went 6-10 that year. But I bet his numbers would not be very far off of what Leinart had in his rookie year if he was pushed into the starting role right away.

Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].

by JoeCB1991 on Mar 28, 2011 11:45 PM MDT up reply actions

I just looked up the numbers that NFL.com had for games started, so thats my bad for not getting them perfect.

And yes, I am in the Anti-Kolb camp if it means giving up multiple picks for a guy that has more career ints than tds.

by Redbird Nation #1 on Mar 28, 2011 4:44 PM MDT up reply actions

Believe me...

I’m not here to tell you that Kolb is worth the #5 pick in the draft or, for that matter, that he isn’t. those decisions will be made by people with a lot more knowledge and football savvy than you and I. I just want to help get the numbers right.

I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.

by no1pipelayer on Mar 28, 2011 6:22 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

Thanks for giving the correct #s, I was doing a little drinking when I put this together.

Kolb definitely had some great games and he would be a huge upgrade over Anderson/Hall. I just think Andy Reid is asking too much for him(according to some articles Ive read)

by Redbird Nation #1 on Mar 29, 2011 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions

If they want a 1st Round pick?

Then no. But if we can get him for a 2nd Round pick, and maybe another pick or something, then I completely support the trade.

by Skii on Mar 29, 2011 6:40 PM MDT up reply actions

Everything...

is speculation at this point. Kolb’s only worth what Reid can get for him.

I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.

by no1pipelayer on Mar 29, 2011 7:58 PM MDT up reply actions

+1

Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].

by JoeCB1991 on Mar 29, 2011 9:00 PM MDT up reply actions

If we can get him for a 2nd and 4th then yes but otherwise no thank you. I say start Skelton and see what happens. No QB in the draft is worth a 5th pick and if Skelton does nothing than we can draft a QB next year. Face it people we have another lost season on our hands, if there is a season at all.

by NoRegret on Mar 29, 2011 7:33 PM MDT reply actions

A 2nd and a 4th?

I would say “yes” to that, and wouldn’t look back.

by Skii on Mar 29, 2011 11:25 PM MDT up reply actions

I would still pass

Our second is basically a late round 1st. It’s valuable. Third is all I give for Kolb.
Now Palmer, who is a proven commodity is a different story.

by Jesse Reynolds on Mar 30, 2011 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions

He was also HORRIBLE

And has been HORRIBLE since the shoulder injury.

by khodder on Mar 30, 2011 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions

WHAT?

Horrible? Horrible in the best conference in football?
2010: Comp 362 Attempt 586 61.8% 3,970 Yds 26 TD 20 INT 26 Sacks
2009: Comp 282 Attempt 466 60.5% 3,094 Yds 21 TD 13 INT 26 Sacks

Please, please, please tell me how that is horrible?
On a terrible team, with worst owner in the NFL, with diva WR’s, in the toughest conference in football.
You’re way off the rez on this one dude.

by Jesse Reynolds on Mar 30, 2011 7:10 PM MDT up reply actions

Watch the Games

His throws are off target a lot, he looks like a 5 year old girl who has “lot her mummy” whenever there is a hint of presse,

Has has been given a horror situation. but those “diva” WR’s are very good pass catchers, and he has also had a sturdy running game (Benson had 1250 yards in 2009 and 1100 in 2010, maybe not great YPC’s, but reliable, and the ground game was always a threat). His OL is also one of the better OL groups in the league too. He also had 8 dropped INT’s in 2010, which would have put him at 28 on the season if DB’s caught well. And these are not diving or one handed drops these are hit you in the hands, between the numbers drops as charted by Football Outsiders.

He is not a great QB anymore, he is barely above the league average, and for what he is getting paid…He is not worth a 5th round pick to take on a guy with what four more years at $12.5MM/Year left on the contract. Guy is owed 50M over the next four years.

by khodder on Mar 30, 2011 9:12 PM MDT up reply actions

Not like we don't have the cap space. We did offer Warner 10mil.

Palmer is not the QB he use to be, granted. Move him to the NFC West and I suspect you will see a big difference in play.
Also, diva WR’s did effect his play. Look at the last game he played without any of the divas. He had a great…. er good game.
Palmer is 31, so I do not see him as our future. I do see him as a perfect stop gap to develop either Skelton or whomever the Cards deem worthy.
Of all the QB’s “available” (its a 10% Brown cuts/releases him) he is the best QB. Sure he isn’t as good as he use to be but we are not going to find another Warner anytime soon. I’d gladly trade our 1st for Palmer and their 2nd. Or our 2nd for Palmer and their 3rd.

by Jesse Reynolds on Mar 31, 2011 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions

Playing in the NFC West

Will have a huge impact on his performances.

by Skii on Mar 31, 2011 5:27 PM MDT up reply actions

People are living in the past too much

Carson Palmer circa 05 let me at him. Great QB. Carson Palmer cirac 2009-10. Ew. Average QB capable of the great throws but more often than not misses by a long way,

A Stopgap would be fine, but you don’t trade valuable draft picks for a “stopgap” you sign a veteran FA for a stopgap.

The best stopgap we could have is probably Shaun Hill.

by khodder on Mar 31, 2011 5:50 PM MDT up reply actions

A change of enviroment will do him some good

Remember, in the last game of last season, with both his star WR’s out, he had his best game. Playing with Fitz and Steve Breaston and co., he’ll definitely do a lot better.

Oh, and he’s 31. He’s got some years left in him while we train up a QB. I wouldn’t complain if we got him.

by Skii on Mar 31, 2011 7:43 PM MDT up reply actions

Misses 40% percent of his throws (half glass empty anyone?)

So that still means he connects on 60%. That 10% difference between him and DA is probably 2-3 wins last year on our team. This stop gap QB could good enough in our conference to have us back in the playoffs. That’s why he’s worth the trade.

by Jesse Reynolds on Apr 1, 2011 11:30 AM MDT up reply actions

Bengals vs Jets in the playoffs

two years back. Palmer seemed on target but his diva receiver Ocho-choke-o couldn’t put his hands on the ball. He talked mad trash about Revis then tanked completely. Haven’t seen many Bengals games and honestly don’t plan to but that memory sticks in my mind.

by hadrarius on Apr 2, 2011 7:02 PM MDT up reply actions

Too great.

Reid wouldn’t go for that.

2nd and 4th is ideal, really. (or 2nd and conditional 3rd next year, or something along those lines)

by Chg91 on Mar 31, 2011 12:15 AM MDT up reply actions

Even that is too much for a relatively unproven QB

I have to agree 100% with Khodder on his analysis of Kolb. I just don’t believe he is worth more than a 3rd. It seems you and hopefully the FA will agree. (should we have a CBA in place of course)

by Jesse Reynolds on Mar 31, 2011 11:20 AM MDT up reply actions

Larry Fitzgerald would disagree w/ you...

But clearly you have better insight. LOL

You've been Stroh'd™!!!

by Strohman on Mar 31, 2011 7:47 PM MDT up reply actions

Fitz has repeatedly said

He has never been asked by the staff about Quarterbacks available to the team and he has repeatedly said that he has never made any recommendations to the team.

One Media report and people jump all over it.

by khodder on Apr 1, 2011 4:01 AM MDT up reply actions

link?

by GraydonS on Apr 1, 2011 7:12 AM MDT up reply actions

Read anything from Darren Urban.

Most of us visit the main website often…

by Jesse Reynolds on Apr 1, 2011 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions

I remember reading

Multiple articles about how Fitz said he’d like Kevin Kolb and Marc Bulger. I haven’t seen an article about him denying that, and I visit the main website very often.

by Skii on Apr 2, 2011 12:52 AM MDT up reply actions