SB Nation Arizona Editor's Pick
It's Time To Be Honest About Our QB Options
There has been much talk the last few weeks about what our beloved Cardinals will do about the dismal Quarterback situation. Names are thrown around every week, here are the usual suspects: Kyle Orton, Carson Palmer, Matt Hasselback, Donovan McNabb, Marc Bulger, and Kevin Kolb. It is about time we start being realistic about which of these guys are actual options, and which ones are wishful thinking.
Kyle Orton – He would be a good fit for our offense and I think we would be a shoo-in for the playoffs if we got him. Unfortunately he is not available. Every can agree Orton is a better option than the very raw Tim Tebow for the upcoming season. There is no way the Broncos are going to put all their eggs in the Tebow basket so soon. He needs at least another year to learn how to be a pro QB and Orton is the perfect guy to hold the reins until he is ready. (UNAVAILABLE)
Carson Palmer – Of all the names listed he would do the best in Arizona. He has the big arm we want and the accuracy needed to hit the timing routes our offense thrives with. Unfortunately the Bengals ownership already said they are calling his bluff and will let him retire. It sounds insane but the Bengals are just that kind of stupid. (UNAVAILABLE)
Matt Hasselback – Matt has question marks. He is old and oft injured, the chances of him making it through a season without his back crumbling to dust is pretty slim. If you can look past that though he is a solid QB that could do well AZ with the receivers we have. However, Matt is a loyal kind of a guy. He likes the fans and they like him, there is no way he going to give the Seattle fans a big F*#% You by going to a division rival. This is especially true since he hates the Cardinals, Wilson in particular. There is a chance he may be available, but not to Arizona (UNAVAILABLE)
Donovan McNabb – Another guy with question marks. Does he have the work ethic to be a good QB again? Does he have any mobility left? Will his persistent issues accuracy on the short crossing routes doom him? I don’t know the answer but he does offer some exciting possibilities. Remember the 2008 playoffs when Warner was hitting Fitz for long plays every game? Remember the last two years when that never happened and how it crushed our offense? If McNabb can do one thing it is throw a pretty long ball. Imagine Fitz, Breaston, and Williams getting hit in stride on those big plays that were overthrown every time last season. It would open everything up including our running game. The best thing about McNabb though is that he is wants to be here and is actually available. If we want the guy he is ours. I’m not saying he would definitely be great, there is a good chance he would completely suck, but unlike everyone above he is an option. (AVAILABLE)
Marc Bulger – Is he the next Kurt Warner? It is almost the perfect imitation. Released from STL because he was always injured then sent to another team for a season, it is like a storybook. Has the year off revitalized what was once a playoff caliber QB. There is no doubt he is a better option than anyone currently on the roster. He has a shot to be solid again; if he can stay healthy and mostly upright he has the intelligence and accuracy to get us into the playoffs. He can also be had, he would love to play for the Cardinals. It gives him a chance to start, and the dynamic receiver he didn’t have his last few years in STL. (AVAILABLE)
Kevin Kolb – There is a chance he could be the franchise QB the Cards have been looking for. I have been watching tape and he has some skills. What worries me is that in his good games he had amazing protection from his O-Line. I am not sure how well he would do if faced with consistent pressure like he would face in Arizona. There is definitely potential there that cannot be ignored, and the Eagles know it. I think they will shop him but will rape whatever team wants him. They have no incentive to take anything less than the kitchen sink, Kolb costs them very little next year and Vick is a big enough question mark that having a solid backup QB for him is a necessity. It has been said they would give him up for a first round pick but that is total crap. They will not party with him for less than a 1st, 2nd, and 4th. Or a 1st and a young impact player like DRC or Daryl Washington. Whatever they ask for it will be not far behind what Denver demanded for Cutler a few years ago. I think we could get him but the coaching staff would have to have no doubts about his chances of success. I have doubts so I do not think he is worth what they will ask for him. (AVAILABLE BUT COSTLY)
In summation:
There are 3 available guys: McNabb, Bulger, and Kolb (please don’t let Vince Young be an option). Bulger and McNabb have huge question marks but can be had without giving up draft picks. Kolb can be had but getting him will cut deep .
I think it will be McNabb or Bulger, probably Bulger since the Cards passed on chances to get McNabb in the past.
What do you think???????
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Revenge of the Birds' (ROTB) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of ROTB's editors.
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Broncos Fan Here - Orton is Available
Kyle Orton will definitely be on the market.
The Broncos don’t have much of a chance to make the playoffs to begin with and he will be a free agent after the year is over, so there is little incentive for the Broncos to hold on to him. I think you should reassess the market with orton in strong consideration.
What would the Cardinals be willing to trade / give up for him? I’ve heard Orton & 2nd Round Pick (2012) for Dan Williams & Beanie Wells… Thoughts?
Sorry...
But I don’t think you’ve done your research if you think he’s only worth a 4th round pick. The Broncos wouldn’t trade him for a 4th in the 2012 draft. I’m trying to leave my Broncos bias at the door, hoping you will do the same, and look at this objectively.
Would you rather trade a 1st round pick for Kolb? He has much worse stats / proven ability than Orton and looks like you think he is the answer.
by chripstopher on May 11, 2011 2:05 PM MDT up reply actions
A 4th is dumb...
Denver would never do that. But what Kolb has that Orton does not is a much higher ceiling. Kolb is loved by teammates, has the arm, the leadership, is a gym rat and loves breaking down film. Orton has teams, for whatever reason, give up on him.
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Orton sucks on third down
And the red zone. To say his stats are better than Kolb’s may be slightly true when looking at the stats page, but as Jess said, Kolb will only get better, while Orton appears to have hit his max potential.
by Tyler Nickel on May 11, 2011 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Orton has hit his max?
How would you possibly know that? Because he played poorly against the Cards last year? When he was injured?
Yes, his 3rd down stats leave plenty to be desired. And yes, he doesn’t make the fans excited the way the idea of “Kolb” might. Still, just a few years ago there was another QB from Purdue that a team in the AFC West let go. He was picked up by a QB-needy team and won a Super Bowl the other year.
Orton may not become a Drew Brees type player – but he is clearly the safest QB of the bunch. As a Denver fan, I would be very surprised if he wasn’t moved this year. He would be an instant upgrade for the Cards – the cleanest shot at a quick return to the playoffs while the rest of the division is in turmoil. And he still has potential to become even better – very much like Brees.
First of all
No need to get all “uppidy” because you are a Denver fan and I think one way and you think another. Secondly, if Orton becomes a Cardinal, I would love for him to prove me wrong. Thirdly, do not compare Orton to Brees, that’s not very fair at all. Lastly, Orton is no more safe than Carson Palmer or Bulger/McNabb/Hasselbeck (given that they won’t cost picks).
I honestly don’t see Orton passing for more than he did the past two years and his career passing % numbers are consistently lower than 60% (except for ‘09). It is not a huge knock on Orton as much as it is a statement that I believe he won’t get much better.
by Tyler Nickel on May 11, 2011 8:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Don't be so sure...
In ‘09 Orton had a damn good year and completed over62% of his throws. Not great but good enough to win with for sure… that year he had some guy named Brandon Marshall to throw to and a good TE as well. In AZ he would have Fitz, Breaston and hopefully a decent TE (didn’t you draft one in the 3rd). So that helps him alot! Heres the deal… Orton isn’t a playmaker. He is a game manager who puts you in position to win, but doesn’t win it on his own! In chicago he had nothing to work w/ for recievers. NOTHING! When he got to Denver he had his best year by having some good targets and he used them! In AZ he would have good targets and would make full use of Fitz. He just also needs some semblance of a running game and a good strong D to win. Like I said, he’ll put his team in position to win, but can’t do it on his own! If the Cards can get a running game going and play good D Orton would be a really good option!
From what I heard from Bickley and MJ, he might be had for a 3rd. Give up a 3rd an Beannie the bust and that should get it done.
Otherwise you best hope is Palmer becoming a possibility (about 50/50 IMO) or trading your 2nd and someone good for Kolb. DRC or Washington and your 2nd might get it done. Otherwise a 1st and maybe Toler.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
RBR here are some sobering stats for you regarding Kevin Kolb. The guy is a scrub and you would give up a 1st for a scrub...
Orton has WAY more on the board than Kolb…WAY more…
That goes with out saying. Sheez, look at Tebow vs Kolb:
Kolb
7 games 60.8 % rate 7 TD 7 INT QB Rating 76.1 65 rush yards 6 fumbles 3 lost 0 TD
Tebow
9 games 50% rate 5 TD 3 INT QB Rating 82.1 227 rush yards 1 fumble 0 lost 6 TD
For interest here are Kyle’s 2010 stats:
13 games 58.8% rate 20TD 9 INT QB Rating 87.5 98 rush yards 4 fumble 4 lost 0 TD
DOES ANYONE ELSE FIND THE LOVE FOR KOLB INSANE? I would take Orton and Tebow in a heart beat over the scrub thats going to fetch a 1st round pick…UNBELIEVABLE!
I throw in Tebow as he has been maligned by the majority of the so called experts but had MARKEDLY better production than Kevin Kolb.
Kyle Orton would be very good for you guys at a price a LOT cheaper than Kolb, and who is still young.
Good luck with the hunt boys!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
You can have
Wells for Orton, but not Williams and Wells….Your crazy…We’ll take Dumervil and send you a second
by Cardsfan928 on May 11, 2011 10:30 PM MDT up reply actions
It's known he's available for a 3rd
Every report I have ever seen says this.
by Nick Thoreson on May 12, 2011 10:33 AM MDT up reply actions
Done and done!
I’ll expect him to be delivered, in one piece, the moment the lockout ends. Preferably sooner.
Agreed
Dan Williams will be the crucial center piece of our D. People do not realize how good he is going to be this year.
I'm certainly hoping your front office doesn't realize this and pulls the trigger.
We could really go for a DT like Dan Williams (I was shocked we didn’t pick him last year instead of Demaryius Thomas, WR).
Good luck to you guys and hopefully both our teams are stronger in the end!
by chripstopher on May 11, 2011 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions
I was shocked you traded above us to pick Tebow over Dan Williams
And thrilled. Oh so very thrilled.
Don't think awesome is the word I would use...
He’s definitely good… But he’ll never make pro bowl regularly or anything like that. He’s a good run stuffing NT who adds nothing in pass rush.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
What!?
This comment just makes no sense!! What is the basis of this? The guy came in at the end of the year and shored up our D-line, we couldnt get pressure on anybody until we had Williams playing consistantly in our 3-4 scheme. Oh and who has better potential in the NFC at NT to make pro-bowls year after year?
by Nick Thoreson on May 12, 2011 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions
Seriously?
Try BJ Raji… He had 6 1/2 sack last year as a NT! Think Williams could do that? I don’t think so!… Williams is fine vs the run but how many sacks did he have? ZERO…
Off the top of my head… Pro Bowls going forward… Raji, Sue, Gerald McCoy, Nick Fairley, Kevin Williams. are all going to the Pro bowl before Dan Williams. I think only 3 DT/NT go from each conference.
Be realistic please…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Dude Get off the Packers Pole
The only guy you mentioned was Sue he had a monster year those guys come once in a lifetime. Raji-hmmmm what where his stats his rookie year?? Oh thats right 25 tackles and 1 sack. Williams in his rookie year where he didnt even dress for the first part of the season already had 38 tackles 1 less than Raji had last year in half the time. “Williams is fine vs the run but how many sacks did he have”? Come on man, you have outside linebackers that opened up lanes for Raji to get through wasnt all Raji. Oh and Farily is so good in the NFL, McCoy had less tackles in twice as many games and so did Kevin Williams. GREAT against the run=Pro Bowls buddy! He was on pace for over 50 tackles from NT cant beat that BTW Suh is not a NT he’s a DT in a 4-3 system.
by Nick Thoreson on May 12, 2011 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh and BTW
Everybody you named besides SUH didnt even make the Pro Bowl. Ecspecially your beloved Raji……………Go to your Packers website and spew horse manuer over there.
by Nick Thoreson on May 12, 2011 5:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Can someone get this man a medal....
Thank you go to APC just because Raji was a piece of a championship defense does not make him the best at his position.
Seriously?
Casey Hampton has been in many Pro Bowls and never had more than 2.5 sacks in a season! Raji had 6.5 in his 2nd season. Thats a huge total for a 34 NT! And I’m pretty sure Pittsburgh has had quite a few OLB to, allegedly, open the middle up for him! Raji should have been in the pro bowl and any knowledgable and reasonable fan would know that.
And for you edification I present…
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-top100-2011/09000d5d81f56218/Top-100-Bonus-B-J-Raji
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Alright you made me...
Remember the time when Aaron Rodgers had his best passing game ever, but still lost? The same time that Kurt Warner made Green Bay’s defense look like they should have been playing in the CFL
by Cardsfan928 on May 12, 2011 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions
SB Champs
because classy Kurt called it a career
by Cardsfan928 on May 12, 2011 10:20 PM MDT up reply actions
but your right
I forgot how effective someone nobody cares about was
by Cardsfan928 on May 12, 2011 10:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah surely the Cards would have beaten the Pack again..
Warner made you relevant for 2 yrs… He’s retired. Get over it and quite living in the past! Would have been a completely different game this year w/ our #2 rated Pass D..
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Your right...
Warner would have thrown for 100%, and sent the Packers packing again, btw wasn’t your pass D in the top 5 that when he gave them a spanking
by Cardsfan928 on May 12, 2011 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions
They were....
which shows how much those stats really matter. Every good QB beat GB that year.
But this year was different. They won those games and the D really was shutting down QBs.
by PhoenicianPakFan on May 12, 2011 10:26 PM MDT up reply actions
If you keep
bashing the Cardinals and boasting the Packers, I’ll have to always remind you, but that’s right we did get a smack from the pack in Week 17 to bad they didn’t get the memo about making the post season count
by Cardsfan928 on May 12, 2011 10:26 PM MDT up reply actions
Not bashing Cards...
Your bashing Pack so I’m defending them. A couple of Cards players haven’t played well and I pointed it out! And I did say that Dan Williams is a really good player!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Right not bashing....
“Williams is fine vs the run but how many sacks did he have? ZERO…”….Before that you went spewing about Raji’s sack count….You always find someway to mention how the Packers players are all better than anything on the Cardinals…Quite frankly it’s been old for a while now. We’re fans of the Arizona Cardinals here, so if you wanna talk Packers go somewhere who cares, maybe Wisconsin
by Cardsfan928 on May 12, 2011 10:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Its not saying anything untrue about Williams.
So its not bashing him. I brought up Raji as a NT w/ pass rush ability (and its a pertinent point) and you guys went off. Not me…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Your right,
your just another victim, who has a favorite football team but goes to other team’s sites to talk about how great your team is…I’m done
by Cardsfan928 on May 12, 2011 10:39 PM MDT up reply actions
I come to talk Cards.
I mentioned one Packer in a relevant way, since then you’ve gone off. as usual!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I gotta agree here...
He was talking Cards. He made a statement about D Williams. When asked other possibilities for Pro Bowl, Raji came up…and naturally. He had a damn good season. 6.5 sacks at NT is astoundingly good. No need to attack the guy just for being a Packers fan. In almost every case of this argument that happens in several strands, it is this way. He comments and uses a GBP example.
Not a bad example to use…they are SB Champs.
Williams may not make Pro Bowls because he is, thus far, not a pass rushing NT and the NT/DT that make the Pro Bowl typically get to the QB. Nothing wrong with that. DWilliams is going to be a very, very good player.
Debate the players all you want. No need to get testy on either side about Cards/Pack. Cards beat them in last year in playoffs in a wonderful game. This year Cards sucked and the Pack won a Super Bowl. End of story. Had Warner not retired, the story may have been different, but that didn’t happen.
Relax…
Like the Cardinals? Revenge of the Birds is where to go.
Like Arizona Sports in general? SB Nation Arizona is where you'll get it all.
Follow me on Twitter! @senorjessroot
"Had Warner not retired"
The Cards also would have been a whole lot more fun to watch this year too. Ugh…
by PhoenicianPakFan on May 14, 2011 3:18 AM MDT up reply actions
Dude...
who cares about Raji, maybe over at APC….Hampton is still FAR better than Raji, with a track record to prove it.
by Cardsfan928 on May 12, 2011 10:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Well if you
wanna go that way, Raji has miles to cover to catch Ngata in that department
by Cardsfan928 on May 12, 2011 10:19 PM MDT up reply actions
So does Hampton
and to compare Ngata to an NT Hampton or Raji is unfair…Baltimore doesn’t use a 3-4
by Cardsfan928 on May 12, 2011 10:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Baltimore Does run a 34!
What position does Suggs play? And Ngata also plays DE for Balt alot!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Try again
Baltimore runs a 46 like what Rex Ryan runs in NY
by Cardsfan928 on May 12, 2011 10:26 PM MDT up reply actions
You're kidding, right?
Dan Williams was rated as one of the hidden superstars (I think by ESPN). One a Defense that largely underachieved, Dan Williams was a force.
I don’t need to post any more stats. Nick has that covered. But many experts believe he’s going to make the Pro Bowl soon. Trust me on this: Dan Williams is going to become a regular Pro Bowler, and he’s going to become a well-known player around the league.
Yes....
and what year is Raji in? What were Raji’s rookie stats?…O yeah that’s right he saw limited snaps also
He had an injury in his rookie training camp.
Then we already had Pickett playing NT, so almost all of Raji’s playing time was at DE. A position which he was totally unfamiliar. When we got him a full training camp in his 2nd season and at his natural position he dominated.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Lol what
Dan Williams, Beanie Wells, and a 2nd rounder? I was thinking a third. Don’t get me wrong, Orton is a great time manager. But sending you our 2nd and two former first rounds picks for a stop gap quarterback is ridiculous.
+1
Like the Cardinals? Revenge of the Birds is where to go.
Like Arizona Sports in general? SB Nation Arizona is where you'll get it all.
Follow me on Twitter! @senorjessroot
You read the post wrong.
It’s Orton + 2nd Round (2012) for Wells + Williams. That was the rumor. I’m not saying that it’s true, nor am I saying it’s fair, I just wanted to get a read on it from your side of the football.
by chripstopher on May 11, 2011 5:30 PM MDT up reply actions
That rumor started in someone's fantasy.
There is no chance whatsoever that the Cardinals deal their last two first round picks for Orton and an anything.
Well one of those 1st round picks is a complete BUST in AZ...
Wells sucks, why do you think they drafted a RB in the 2nd? Orton and a 2nd for Williams and a bust doens’t seem unreasonable. I don’t think it’ll happen tho.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Compare his career stats to Moreno's
Not really that far off. My question is how much value is Denver going to place on a back that they passed over in the draft in favor of Moreno? Of course, that was a different front office…
Beanie Wells' isn't a bust
It’s been two years, and in the second half of his first year, he was decent. He’s been injured, though. But it has only been two years. Give him one more season to prove himself, before calling him a complete bust.
He hasn't beaten out Tim freakin Hightower in 2 yrs!
Do you think the rest of the NFL is unaware of that fact?! Wells has next to no real value in the NFL until he’s done something and he hasn’t yet! NFL teams don’t value unrealized potential in veteran RB. And why is it that the Cards drafted a RB in the 2nd? Probably cuz they have no use for Wells anymore! Your over-exaggerating his value by ALOT!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
And your under valuing it a lot
Wells is far from a bust. His rookie season was great and his second season was hampered by injuries and poor QB play.
Next year will be a true test of Wells. When he is on, he is on – just watch some highlights from his rookies season.
Also, Williams will more likely place Hightower than Wells. We will see all three of them next season, guaranteed.
by Jesse Reynolds on May 12, 2011 12:39 AM MDT up reply actions
So then why would you want Beanie if he is a bust?
If you don't have anything good to say about the Cards this season, you'd be correct.
by hevchv on May 12, 2011 7:20 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Unrealized potential
ANd he would be basically a throw in in a trade w/ Denver. Big players in the trade are Orton, Williams and the draft pick!
Like I said, Beannie hasn’t beaten out Tim freakin Hightower in 2 yrs! And RB is a position that is relatively easy to make an impact as a rookie, much less after 2 YEARS…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
We drafted Ryan Williams
Probably to replace Tim Hightower, who’ll most probably be leaving as a FA when the Off-season resumes.
You don’t give up on a player after just two seasons (And he hasn’t even played two full seasons. Injuries saw to that). He hasn’t achieved what the Coaching Staff would like him to yet, but he definitely hasn’t done anything to be called a “complete bust”, who has “next to no real value in the NFL”.
We'll see...
I live in Phx and it seems to me that Whiz has never been happy w/ Beannie’s play or his practice habits, or his production or his fumbles… Honesly what has Beannie accomplished in the NFL, in his 2 season as Hightowers backup, at a position where its not unusual for Rookies to make an impact?
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I'm not convinced that anyone's getting outright replaced
But in regards to Strohman, compare Wells’ 292 rushing attempts in that span to Hightower’s 296. If Wells hadn’t missed time last year, he’d have more touches than Hightower despite not being named the starter. I agree with you that Whiz isn’t happy with Wells (I think everyone was disappointed with Beanie last year) but the company line has been that Hightower starts because he offers more as a receiver and pass blocker.
We do need to see improvement out of Wells. I think he showed progress in pass blocking last year, but I base that solely on a few plays I happened to notice here and there.
How many RB are you carrying?
Hightower, Wells, Williams, LSH… LSH has a fairly defined role unless you want Williams to do returns. Just seems to me that the one in Whiz’s doghouse is Wells, since the day Beannie arrived its been that way. Most analysts seem to think drafting Williams is an indication that Wells in on the way out, if not an out-right indictment of Wells.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I think Whiz is fed up with Wells and Hightower fumbling...
but I think he keeps Wells over Hightower. That whole 1st Rd pick status carries a lot of weight (as well as ego and not wanting to be wrong on your pick). Plus I think Wells has much more potential than he’s shown thus far. Not sure that Hightower does.
by PhoenicianPakFan on May 14, 2011 3:20 AM MDT up reply actions
Congratulations
Since you live in the valley with many of us here, our ground game is still leaps and bounds better than Green Bay’s
by Cardsfan928 on May 12, 2011 10:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Really?
If we hadn’t lost Grant in ’10? He had 2 1200 yds seasons! ANyone in AZ do that lately?
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Seeing as
Grant is every bit as injury prone as Wells it’s a Wash…So our ground committee is much better. Grant has a passing machine which makes his game appear better
by Cardsfan928 on May 12, 2011 10:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Really
He played all the games to end 07, all game in 08 and all game in 09. "10 was the only injury that caused him to miss games!
Speaking of passing games. You had Warner in 09 didn’t you? How did that run game look then?
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
They should have!
The Cars offense should have worked like an assembly line. Ball goes: Center → DA → RB. And thats the only track it takes on every play. I don’t care how much they fumbled, it couldn’t have been as bad as keeping (what seemed like) a pass first offense with DA as QB instead of Warner.
by PhoenicianPakFan on May 14, 2011 3:22 AM MDT up reply actions
Holy Crap....
Dan Williams and Beanie Wells for Orton. How old are you that is a trade that I did in techmo bowl 100 years ago. No GM in the World would do that. 1) Dan Williams is our nose tackle for the next 10 years. 2) Beanie cant stay healthy so the broncos dont want him. 3) Id trade a second for Orton if their was absolutely no other option. Personally I am a skelton fan and think their is potential their. That being said I dont want skelton to start this year at all….
Once again...
… I’m not suggesting this trade as fair, just posting to get a reaction from your side.
by chripstopher on May 11, 2011 5:30 PM MDT up reply actions
How about we stop tearing this guy apart
The truth is, we have no idea what the Cards will give up for their next guy. When it goes down, we might absolutely hate what Whiz and the FO give up for Kolb or Orton (or whoever). We might say that whatever the cost was, it was way too much. In response to chripstopher’s stated rumor, I (along with pretty much everyone else here) would think that giving up Dan Williams is a no-no. Wells wouldn’t be out of the question since our 2nd round pick happened, but the Broncos seem to be happy with Moreno.
As seems to be the consensus, a 2012 2nd rounder might be a worthy price.
"When life gives you lemons, I say f**k the lemons and bail."
here is why i tear a guy apart
I would never go on Denver page and start throwing random names out like that. If he wanted a reaction i gave him my honest reaction and quite honestly I was very muted in my response because I just got yelled at for being mean.
It was a rumor...
And it has some merit, even tho I don’t think theres any chance it will happen. no reason to get testy w/ him. He just wanted to guage Cards fans thoughts on it.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I
don’t think the Cardinals would be interested in Orton. Orton isn’t going to offer too much as no team wants him badly enough. Maybe worth a 3rd round pick to some team. There is no way Dan Williams would be traded. He was a first round pick to strengthen the NT spot on the Cardinals. The Broncos have messed up their system so much over the last few years that it is there own fault they have no defensive front. Taking Miller over Fairley and Dareus was a mistake. They switch from 4-3 to 3-4 and now back to 4-3 and take 4-3 players for the 3-4 and 3-4 players for the the 4-3. As much as Wells has not shown up it would probably take a training camp to see the competition between all the RBs on the Cardinals and then it would be too late for a trade.
definitely not trading Beanie and D Will
Might be willing to part with a draft pick for next year to get Orton
We all bleed Cardinal Red, but most of us don't recognize it!
"It takes no talent to give great effort"--Chris Petersen
Draft picks
Why would you guys want Beanie? You already have Knowshon.
Knowshon is good.
But we are definitely looking for more depth at RB. Fox typically likes to have at least 2 RBs. Our depth is Correll Buckhalter, LenDale White, and Laurence Maroney. Two are semi-injured and none are a stable horse.
Since you said draft picks, what do you see as a reasonable straight offer for orton.
by chripstopher on May 11, 2011 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Hightower?
I’m a Hightower fan, but he might not fit your definition of a “stable horse”. He’s hard working, hard hitting, and a good blocker, but he obviously has fumbling issues (which I still think can be fixed). Not sure he’ll ever be a feature back, though.
"When life gives you lemons, I say f**k the lemons and bail."
I disagree that Orton
is unavailable. John Elway is doing a good job of devaluing him. McNabb is not happening and Kolb will be costly, depending on if teams get in a bidding war. The Eagles want to move him because he will walk during the next offseason if he is not starting.
Like the Cardinals? Revenge of the Birds is where to go.
Like Arizona Sports in general? SB Nation Arizona is where you'll get it all.
Follow me on Twitter! @senorjessroot
Kevin Kolb or McNabb
Go Big with Kevin Kolb and patch up the O-line through free agency OR Sign McNabb and let him teach Skelton like he taught Michael Vick.
I"m pretty confident that McNabb is not going to be in AZ
And I definitely don’t think he’d be worth signing.
We all bleed Cardinal Red, but most of us don't recognize it!
"It takes no talent to give great effort"--Chris Petersen
Agree with pretty much everybody above me
Also, I think that Palmer will eventually become available whether he retires or management finally gives up and trades him. I believe He has seen his last days in Cincy… Lewis has given up on him (he said so when drafting Dalton) and the relationship would be to strained to go back to.
Palmer won't be available if he retires as the Bengals will still hold his rights.
That is the leverage they have over him. It’s play for them or sit at home. I’m not sure what the details of that rule are, if they hold those rights indefinitely or if there is a limitation. Either way he’s not free to sign with whomever he pleases just because he retires from Cincinnatti. The question is whether or not the owner there values a grudge more than he does what he can get out of Palmer in a trade.
That's what grinds my gears....
With so many teams needing QBs, a guy like Palmer could reel in a nice draft pick or some decent talent in return (after the lockout). I realize you can’t always give in to whining, disgruntled players, but he’s worth something. They need to release a statement saying that the reason they’re finally going to let Palmer go is that they think they have a legitimate chance at getting better if they trade him. I think he’s worth at least a third rounder. So Cincy could trade him and have two 3rds or two 2nds next year instead of being empty-handed and Palmer is released from his retirement restriction.
"When life gives you lemons, I say f**k the lemons and bail."
There's no way the Eagles get a 1,2 and a 4 for Kolb.... that's stupid crazy! The Cutler deal was predicated by the fact he'd proven he could play over a long period and at higher level. Kolb has not proven that so his trade is not close.
If AZ gives more than a 1st and 3rd for Kolb, they are getting fleeced IMO
I agree with az78true above, but if any team will get a great trade like that out of Kolb, it will be the eagles (they’ve pulled off some great trades in recent history).
Also, yes, Orton is available. He’d look good in White and Red.
"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV
Insignificance--love PJ
And I agree that a 1st and 3rd is too much for Kolb, and that Orton would look great in Cardinal Red.
We all bleed Cardinal Red, but most of us don't recognize it!
"It takes no talent to give great effort"--Chris Petersen
1st, 2nd, and 4th
Are you crazy – that would be a terrible deal for the cards. Or give up a 1st and DRC – no. 1st and D washington – hell no (our LB core is so deep right now, right???). This guy is nuts. Kolb will only have 2-3 teams max expressing serious interest and if the seahawks resign hassleback thats one less team.
Kolb has 1 yr left on his contract so if the eagles do not deal him now – they get nothing! I am fine with a 1st rounder (maybe ask for a 3rd rounder from eagles), or 2nd rounder and Beanie. But the eagles need to dela Kolb and not too many teams are in the market
I'd be ok with either of thos scenarios
A 1st or a 2nd with Beanie. But I don’t think Philly would take either deal.
We all bleed Cardinal Red, but most of us don't recognize it!
"It takes no talent to give great effort"--Chris Petersen
QB for this team, whenever the season starts,
will be Marc Bulger. The risk/reward pendulum is most balanced in his favor and he has the blessing of Kurt, whom he has shared a roster with.
I'm torn...
… between it being Bulger and McNabb. I know McNabb’s not really been anyone’s favorite, but I have this feeling!
Bulger is definitely the best option.
The Cards won’t pay what’ll be demanded for Kolb & I think that, even if available, Orton will be more than the organisation wants to pay.
My choice would be Palmer, but I don’t see it happening.
No Kolb please
They will want the house for him.
Palmer my first choice if he somehow comes up for trade. Orton is my 2nd choice and could be had for a 2nd. Bulger my 3rd and only if we cant get the first 2.
by McCollum, Travis on May 11, 2011 4:36 PM MDT reply actions
Kolb for the right price
Kolb should be our #1 option but only for the right price. Bulger is an ok option but he will likely get hammered and hurt, and he has not played football in 1-2 years. Palmer would be my #1 option but until Cincy owner is willing to trade thats not going to happen. Hassleback, maybe. McNabb – No.
Kolb for the right price. 2nd rounder and maybe a RB – or 2013 late draft pick
Why Kolb? He performed worse than LOADS of QB's...even rookies and you guys want to give a #1 for him???? oi vey!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Don't trade away a first rounder for anyone
Not when next year’s draft has 5 or 6 guys who could be legitimate playoff caliber starters. Luck, Barkley, and Jones are QBs who are all early first round talents, and there are plenty of other guys who are second round types like Nick Foles and Ryan Lindley (Sleeper out of SD State who could shoot up boards, btw). Kirk Cousins and Terrele Pryor could fall a little bit. I mean holy c***, this draft is absolutely loaded. I applaud the cardinals for not taking a qb this year, i can only assume it is because they see how amazing this QB class could be. So save the picks, build through the draft.
by 31nitramK on May 11, 2011 5:08 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Would it be out of the question...
to pick up McNabb and Bulger? The cost of both still will not equal the cost of Kolb. Also, both are more proven and sure bets even at their age. IF one does not work out, then we have great depth. I feel this would be the safest option and we wouldn’t have to sacrifice much. McNabb, Bulger, Skelton would be a pretty solid looking depth chart for QB.
Arizona Sports (minus) UofA wildcats = Love!
probably not out of the question
but why would we want both?
We all bleed Cardinal Red, but most of us don't recognize it!
"It takes no talent to give great effort"--Chris Petersen
Because neither one provide us with a sure answer and we will need a third regardless
that is, unless you really think Hall or Bartel can work as a third string.
Arizona Sports (minus) UofA wildcats = Love!
Well...
IF the Cards go the veteran route as a stop-gap and to tutor John Slekton, I’d prefer Bulger over McNabb. IF the Cards are looking for a long-term guy, I’d prefer Orton over Kolb, especially when you factor Kolb’s compensation to the Eagles. Orton was crippled in Denver because he lacked WR talent, Arizona DOESN’T have that problem. Orton could be had for a 2nd or 3rd, while it will take a 1st for Kolb, maybe more.
In fact, if the Cards were smart, they’d sign either Orton or Kolb AND sign Marc Buler as a backup.
Honestly, I’d be happy with any of those four mentioned, but PLEASE sign one of them QUICKLY!
I say we go for Kevin Kolb
I don’t want to give up a 1st Round pick, but how about a conditional pick? Maybe a 2nd Round pick and something else if we miss the Playoffs, and a 1st Round pick if we make the Playoffs.
The Coaching Staff/FO seem to think he’s “The Guy”. If that’s the case, then go for it.
And then there’s Peyton Manning.
I was thinking something like a conditional trade too.
Say a 2 2nd if you have a 8-8 record or worse, and a 1st if you make the playoffs, or a 1st adn 3rd if you win the division. Could also have to do w/ his stats like QB rating…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
It's the safe way out
That way, if everything that can go wrong goes wrong, and we get the #1 overall pick, we don’t have to give up Andrew Luck. Not saying that’ll happen, but a conditional pick would be the smart one.
I don’t see why the Eagles would refuse it, either. If they’re so confident in Kevin Kolb like they make him out to be, then they should have no problem taking the conditional pick. Plus, it’s the NFC West. The division is improving, but it’s still pretty easy to win.
Orton's the closest thing available to a top 10 QB
And he has been in that area for at least two years in a row. If we can get him for a second, I’d do it. I’d actually give a first for him, but I’d want to have an extension in place before the move was made. With Luck & Co. looming next year, I don’t want to scalp our picks, but I’d be willing to bring in Orton for as long as he’s effective and get Skelton ready to take the reigns a couple years down the road.
I’m the most comfortable with this idea out of all the other QB talk we’ve been hearing. To me, Palmer hasn’t been good for a couple years, Kolb is too much of an unknown for the cost, and I don’t think McNabb has the accuracy to excel in our system.
You're right about that
I was doing some research on some of the other QB trades that have gone down recently and I now kinda think that a 1st would be too much for Orton, but a 2nd would be more than reasonable.
Kolb and Schaub should have comparable trade value but Kolb is a risk, whereas Orton has proven himself.
Orton would do well here
If he performs better than all our QB’s last year, which shouldn’t be hard.
AZ fans are dying for a QB again and whomever joins is going to get embraced. I feel like in Denver he was never Elway enough for the fans. And I know that’s probably just speculation.
One thing is why would you want Dan Williams? You run a 4-3 and Williams is a protypical 3-4 NT.
The trade doesn’t make sense just like taking Miller over Dareus.
by Jesse Reynolds on May 12, 2011 12:46 AM MDT reply actions
I'm not sure I'm going to be able to handle months of speculation like this...
sure wish a deal would get done…
If wishes were dollars, we would all be rich...
but we will stay poor by wasting our wishes on a deal getting done before August at the earliest. IMO, the way this is playing out we are going to miss games this year. :-(((
you are probably right
and that means I’ll probably shut down and stop following them for now. Its hard to get excited when it seems both sides don’t care…..this has been covered in other posts so we don’t have to cover here…
but to me, I’m left wondering why we should care when they don’t……
Because in the end
Even though a lot of people are calling for a boycott, it’ll never happen. Even if you hate the league, you’ll still love the sport. You, and everyone else (Including me), will still love their team.
I’m not going to lie. As soon as the NFL comes back, I’ll be back to watching. For the Cardinals.
I think the Cards are leaking their interest in Kolb
To leverage a better trade value for Orton. The less suitors Orton has, the lower their final asking price for him could be. What has Kolb really done?
If you don't have anything good to say about the Cards this season, you'd be correct.
by hevchv on May 12, 2011 9:13 AM MDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Interesting take
Seems like something Whiz would do.
Here’s something I’ve been thinking about: did Whiz pay special attention to Cam Newton at his workout in order to potentially raise his draft status so it was more likely that Miller or Peterson would fall to the Cards at #5?
"When life gives you lemons, I say f**k the lemons and bail."
I kind of like this thought too....
I’m not sure what the infatuation is with Kolb. As others have said, he’s been so-so thus far with some potential. But if the Cards can get someone to bridge for a bit (and I think Orton is better than just a bridge, but its probably the only gig he’ll get) then they can either groom someone they have or draft someone. Orton is young and can fill in longer than Bulger can, and not cost anywhere near what Kolb will.
by PhoenicianPakFan on May 14, 2011 3:27 AM MDT up reply actions
Trading for Orton makes the most sense to me
No one wants to suffer from short-term memory loss, but we’re all often susceptible to it being Cardinals fans (and in regards to gas prices). Orton has been called nothing but a ‘stop-gap’ and a ‘game-manager’ several times. He’s under 30, so if we sign him to an extension and he excels he would not simply be a ‘stop-gap’. The short-term memory loss statement was in regards to the ‘simply a game-manager’ tag. What were we desperate for after only a few games last season? A qb that was accurate and wouldn’t throw the game away. Ironically, many said that Leinart was that guy (no big plays but no ridiculous turnovers during the preseason), now that we have a chance to get a qb that is proven to have some level of success when he is given decent weapons it’s simply not enough that’s he’s only a ‘game-manager’.
I can understand the excitement about Kolb, we’re trying to hit a walk-off grand slam to win the game instead of accumulating singles, a double, and a couple sacrifice-bunts to win (excuse the baseball reference). But how many times has a desperation trade worked out? Almost everyone on the Philly page believes Kolb will require a 1st round 2012 pick + DRC or Daryl Washington from us. They’re so confident in this their debate is simply over who they would rather have. If we made this trade, I would instantly feel like we got the short end of the stick, and I doubt that feeling would change over time. Giving up the potential best young CB tandem in the league for an unproven qb plus another future stud (if we use the 2012 first round pick well) seems ludicrous when I look at it that way. And another thing, people are getting on Beanie for having two years to unseat Hightower for the starting position and failing to do so. How about Kolb? He hasn’t been able to unseat an old McNabb and a fresh-out-of-jail Vick. And Reid is STILL saying how this guy is going to be a star qb in the future. How many years until this future finally arrives? Something doesn’t add up, if he truly is as good as Andy Reid makes him out to be, injuries or no injuries, he would have found a way to become the consistent starter in Philly. We’re considering trading a solid starter and a first round pick for basically a career backup. Not cool…
On the other hand, giving up a 2nd round pick for Orton seems reasonable. If a simple trade of a 3rd round pick for Orton is possible then I don’t see how we could possibly neglect pulling the trigger on that trade. Add that with signing Bulger for some insurance and some O-lineman through free agency and I believe that puts us right back in contention for the NFC West title.
Just my 2 cents
GO CARDINALS!!!
by cardsfanforlife24 on May 12, 2011 1:07 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
I'm getting tired of how many people think we will just give Philly DRC or Peterson for Kolb
We would be getting ripped off there.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
by JoeCB1991 on May 12, 2011 3:03 PM MDT reply actions 3 recs
Go to the Green Bay site or.........
take your bias out, unless it is for the Cardinals. Sounds dumb but what the hell do you think this sight is for?
From Jess Root...
He was talking Cards. He made a statement about D Williams. When asked other possibilities for Pro Bowl, Raji came up…and naturally. He had a damn good season. 6.5 sacks at NT is astoundingly good. No need to attack the guy just for being a Packers fan. In almost every case of this argument that happens in several strands, it is this way. He comments and uses a GBP example.
So maybe You should relax and let me talk Cards… And if I use a Packer example, consider it a complement. Cuz you Know we are SB Champs! Least i’m not comparing you to Carolina!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!

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