Holding All The Cards: What If You Owned The Arizona Cardinals: Part Deux!
by cdeveau on Jun 6, 2011 11:21 AM MDT
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From the first post by Draft.
Now without further ado, I bring up my defensive unit. I see a multitude of stars in this group. But even stars will fail you in this game, if they stay on the field nearly the entire game, week in week out.. Which is why I feel the tweaks I made to the offensive group will allow me to be competitive on that side of the propelling the D up the charts. Shall we dig into what my plans for dem birds are?
Total Defensive (Slots 25)
My Safeties: (Slots 4)
1: This equation is simple. 24 = AW = A-Dub = OMG!: Is a beast who played through injury last year. I expect this year to be different with Horton (Not the kind that hears a Who, but the mind behind the swarm) putting his stamp on the scheme. A-Dub will be standing over a bunch of crumpled QB's this year.
1: Rhodes: All I have to say is look out below:
| Season | Team | Tackles | Interceptions | Fumbles | |||||||||||
| G | GS | Comb | Total | Ast | Sck | SFTY | PDef | Int | Yds | Avg | Lng | TDs | FF | ||
| 2010 | Arizona Cardinals | 16 | 16 | 90 | 78 | 12 | 1.0 | 0 | 12 | 4 | 174 | 43.5 | 66 | 0 | 0 |
| Season | Team | Tackles | Interceptions | Fumbles | |||||||||||
| G | GS | Comb | Total | Ast | Sck | SFTY | PDef | Int | Yds | Avg | Lng | TDs | FF | ||
| 2010 | New York Giants | 16 | 16 | 87 | 75 | 12 | 0.5 | -- | 4 | 1 | 36 | 36.0 | 36 | 0 | 1 |
Magic - I rest my case.
2) Johnson: He has stepped up from 2009 when he appeared lost. Still has room to improve, but has time to do so behind Rhodes.
3) Abdullah: He knows the play book. If he goes elsewhere, I look to bring in Deandre McDaniels, the undrafted safety out of Clemson. he can play either safety spot, and A-Dub and Rhodes could groom him.
My CB's (Slots 5)
1) Cromartie: He had a down year, yes. It's how he plays this year that matters. He put on lean muscle. Horton isn't going to coddle him. He still has blazing speed and is a playmaker. Add a dash of toughness and we have a superstar.
1) Toler: A beast. Has size, speed. Willingness to bring the wood to a guy. Started after being a 2nd tier college player. Had his ups and downs, but shows me the potential I need to see
2) PP7: I'd make him hire a PR team to come up with some name better than PeePee7. He was the 5th pick. Not 5th round, 5th pick. Physically, he is gifted. Now I need Horton to bring him into the superstar talk. I do expect PP7 to start midway through the season, with Toler moving to nickle.
3) Adams: Knows the play book, is a special teams player adds some depth.
4) Green/Jefferson: I give the two rookies who flashed promise last year, an opportunity to be the depth man this year. The loser goes back to practice squad.
My ILB's: This is where I spend some cash. No, I'm not being cheap on D, I have that much faith in them. (Slots 5) Hayes will not be back. We appreciate your contribution.
1) Washington: He was a starter last year. Showed why they picked him up. I see that continuing into this year.
1) Kirk Morrison: I pay him money to come start for me in AZ, away from J-Ville. He is stout in the run, replacing Hayes. I screamed to get him last year, now I go get him this year.
2) Lenon: A steal from last year. He brings a lunchpail attitude to the core, and does the small things well. I can see him providing excellent depth as rotation, and a great mentor for Washington and the new "Q". See below:
| Season | Team | Tackles | Interceptions | Fumbles | |||||||||||
| G | GS | Comb | Total | Ast | Sck | SFTY | PDef | Int | Yds | Avg | Lng | TDs | FF | ||
| 2010 | Arizona Cardinals | 16 | 16 | 125 | 94 | 31 | 2.0 | -- | 6 | 2 | 12 | 6.0 | 10 | 0 | 1 |
| Season | Team | Tackles | Interceptions | Fumbles | |||||||||||
| G | GS | Comb | Total | Ast | Sck | SFTY | PDef | Int | Yds | Avg | Lng | TDs | FF | ||
| 2010 | Miami Dolphins | 14 | 13 | 95 | 78 | 17 | 3.0 | -- | 4 | -- | -- | 0.0 | -- | -- |
2 |
4) Sturdivant: A steal in the draft. I can't believe he fell to where he did. He has a nose for the ball, and like to hit. I see Washington and the new "Q" being our middle tandem for years to come.
5) Walker: Knows the play book, contributes on special teams.
My OLB's (Spots 5) I don't spend $ here, in fact I trim. I had such high hopes for you J-Peezey, on to this year. Good luck to you.
1) Schofield: Another high motor guy. I see him starting. he worked his way from IR at the start of the season to playing. And has anyone heard his raps? The man is out to get everyone not in Card red.
1) Davis: Finally, and I mean finally, Davis will come into his own. My question is will it be too late, with the arrival of Acho and the emergence of Schofield?
2) Haggans: Quality veteran presence for the youth in the squad. He has a great work ethic and will be a solid mentor.
2) Acho: A pick this year. Could get to the QB in college. Has some size to him as well to be stout against the run. Pass coverage, we shall see.
3) Obiozor: They picked him up off Green Bay's squad last year, but he saw no time. Knows the play book and can be depth.
DL (Spots 6) Robinson will retire, it will be so. Thank you for your work with Williams last year.
1) Dockett: My man Dockett. The king of twitter feuds, controversies, and downright oddities. But he plays the game. Last year, he struggled. This year, I see the chip on the shoulder.
1) Williams: Built to be a NT, his presence forced teams to double him as the year progressed. He will progress this year as well, and open things up.
1) Campbell: Had an off year last year. I see that not being the case this year. Dockett is healthy, Williams emerges as a double team stud. Campbell has the size and know how to be a force on the field.
2) Branch: Resign him, he was coming into his own as a DE. Finally. Don't regress Alan.
2) Watson: He saw no time at NT. But now that Robinson is gone, Watson will be the depth behind Williams. He has the size to demand the DT, now we have to see if he knee can hold.
2) Dykes/Iwebema: I let these two battle it out for the last spot. They both know the play book, and both contribute. However Iwebema was hurt.
So, that's my D unit for the 2011 season. I'd like to read everyone's thoughts on this side of the Cards coin.
I will chime in later with K,P,LS positions, and my thoughts on the 2012 draft.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Revenge of the Birds' (ROTB) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of ROTB's editors.
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Sounds good to me.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Very well done
I like all you have said. I would replace Abdullah with Matt Ware.
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Lost me right here...
Toler: A beast.
Anything beyond that got muted! Totally lost credibility w/ me.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Every comment
you make, points out more and more you did not watch a whole lot of Greg Toler or the Arizona Cardinals that much last season. Here’s my call Toler is the breakout player of the year, he’s as physical as they get for corners.
As the nickel CB
He’s going to have a breakout season? LOL Good young player, but a beast he is not.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I think that by "beast" he was talking about how Toler laid out a few receivers last year
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
He was one of the better tackling CB's last season
And it was his first season starting. I thought he did a very admirable job. He let up too many completions but with time and experience he should improve into a solid CB.
by Jesse Reynolds on Jun 6, 2011 12:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Good tackler.
That may be true. But a CB first job is pass coverage. So a beast was a poor description of him by Cardsfan928. If he is as good a tackler as you say, it lends more credence to the idea of trading DRC to Philly for Kolb. DRC will never be a good tackler or a physical player. So if Horton wants to play the Pitts style D, which I’m sure is why Whis brought him to AZ, then DRC is a poor scheme fit. Keep Toler and Peterson at CB, get Kolb and find a nickel CB in FA. DRC is a talent, of that there is no doubt, but he isn’t a good fit if Horton and Whis want to play a Pitts style D.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Gotta disagree
on that DRC will never be a good tackler. Physical player, probably not. But there is no reason to think that he could become a good tackler. He might not, but he could.
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Good pusher out of bounds guy.
But he lacks the physicality it takes to become a good tackler, IMO. Gotta be willing to hit and play physical football to be a good tackler. DRC doesn’t fit that description. Again, IMO.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Despite his lack of physicality
There is just no way a guy of his talent is going to be traded for Kolb. He was considered a top ten CB and this was even after his down season. He also has been said to have come in 8lbs heavier and looking in great shape.
He can become a good tackler, everyone can. Heck I have starting OLB whos the one of the smallest LB’s on the roster but is a vicious tackler. It’s a mentality thing
by Jesse Reynolds on Jun 6, 2011 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions
It is a mentality thing.
And by now I think his mentality has been established. If your working w/ HS age and even some college age guys they can change that mentality. By the time you get to the NFL, I think your mentality is what it is and who you are going to be. Can improve skills and develop that way, but I don’t think you can improve the desire to hit someone. Just my opinion…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Deion
Sanders was the absolute worst tackler ever. He never had any intention of improving on that. DRC likely is of the same mindset.
Deion
When he HAD to make the tackle he usually did. Otherwise he had no interest in tackling anyone other than the guy he was covering. I agree DRC probably has the same mindset.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Ugh
Good point. If he doesn’t want to change he’s not going to now.
by Jesse Reynolds on Jun 6, 2011 4:29 PM MDT up reply actions
I remember his rookie season
He forced a fumble and the press complimented him for his tackling. His comment was that he brings both coverage and hitting to his game.
Kinda funny, now.
Hitting, not tackling.
DRC will push or slam into a receiver with his shoulder rather than wrap him up with a good tackle. He’s by far not the only guy in the league with that problem. The issue (hitting vs tackling) came up in discussion a lot last season after the crack down on dirty hits. It seemed a common lament of commentators and former players that the current players have trended so far away from tackling with good form, preferring instead to go for the big hit that will get them onto a highlight reel. Unfortunately when you are a defensive back blowing that big hit gets you on the highlight reel for the wrong reason.
Looking at the stats,
Toler was best corner in coverage. Was targeted most on team and had the lowest catch percentage. Wasn’t really good (57.9%), but was better than DRC last yr and was thrown at more.
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All the more reason to trade DRC for Kolb
DRC has potential to be a great cover CB, but if he regressed and isn’t a good scheme fit for the Pitts style D that I’m sure WHis and Horton want, then trading him is in everyones best interests.
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No go
He’s primed to have a great year. Having 3 good cover guys is a must now.
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Agree with Jess
The trade just doesn’t make sense. We know Philly is desperate for CB but trading a probowl skilled player for a unknown quantity is a risky, risky trade.
by Jesse Reynolds on Jun 6, 2011 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions
That's just it.
You need 3 good corners. Across the nfl last season the nickel defense was played 48% of the time. No way they trade any of these guys (Toler, DRC or Peterson). Mike Adams is not a good choice for nickel corner but is a good special teams guy. Maybe AJ Jefferson steps up and becomes a good corner some day and maybe not. Marshay Green was on the bubble before getting Peterson. McBride is an UFA. There are too many holes to fill on this team through free agency already. Why create more when it’s unnecessary? There are a lot of other avenues to a potential trade for Kolb than giving up DRC. The idea is all just speculation anyway due to the belief that Philly is in need of a corner. They may have other plans in that direction.
No
Can never have enough good corners, even with his lack of physicality he is still a good player and it would be a horrible deal for us to send any of the CBs to Philly.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Gotta have a QB!
Otherwise all the good CB mean nothing! LOL I totally agree you can never have enough good CB, but QB comes 1st in the pecking order! And if you have a chance to get one, when you don’t have one, you take the chance. Kolb is a chance to get yourself the QB of the present and future. Its a risk, but one you have to consider… And if the Cards think Kolb is that QB, you do what you have to, to get him. Including trading DRC.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
If having 3 strong CBs
means you have a chance to be an elite defense, then QB moves down the pecking order. We’ve argued before about how an elite defense can make as much of a difference as an elite QB.
Now Strohman, before you jump all over me and tell me the Cardinals don’t have an elite defense, re-read my first sentence and notice that I said a chance to be elite. This defense definitely has a chance to be elite if the young OLBs fill their potential as strong pass rushers. All of the other pieces are in place, especially if Horton is as aggressive as he says he will be with his schemes and blitzes.
We all bleed Cardinal Red, but most of us don't recognize it!
"It takes no talent to give great effort"--Chris Petersen
3 Strong CB
I don’t care how many CB’s you have, they mean less to a D than pass rushers and you don’t have any of those. Love OB Schofield as a Badger fan, but he’s not a great pass rusher and neither is Acho, IMO. Both have some potential to be good, but they both need a dominant pass rusher on the other side to be effective and take the pressure off them. Pass rush trumps coverage everyday…
I like all the Cards CB, and they have some good young talent. But look at the Packers D in 09 when we lost to the Cards in the playoffs. We lacked the pass rush, but had great CB’s.
This is a QB driven league and very few D’s are dominant enough to be good enough to carry a team, unless you also have a strong run game. Thats missing also…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I didn't say having 3 Strong CBs would make the Cardinals D elite
I said if the pass rushers fulfilled their potential, then all of the other pieces would be in place. In today’s “QB driven league” it doesn’t matter if you have a pass rush if you can’t cover the recievers. Both pieces are equally important, and having 3 better than average CBs certainly helps if you want to field an elite defense.
O Scho showed a lot of promise when he finally got on the field last season. Let’s give him a chance to play before determining that he can’t be successful without a dominant pass rusher opposite him. Maybe O Scho is the dominant pass rusher that Acho or Davis needs to make them elite.
We won’t know until he actually gets on the field and plays a full season, but 2 sacks in 2 games without a dominant pass rusher opposite him last season is a pretty good sign that he could be a great pass rusher.
We all bleed Cardinal Red, but most of us don't recognize it!
"It takes no talent to give great effort"--Chris Petersen
2 sacks
In 2 games when the other team didn’t know he existed, isn’t to difficult. Lets see him produce sacks when the other team is prepared, much less game planning for him. Like I said, he’s a good pass rusher, but he isn’t going to be elite, IMO. Hope I’m wrong, cuz Schofield is a great person as well as a good player and deserves whatever comes his way. I’ve watched him alot more than the 2 games you saw of him.
Yeah, 3 good CB is a good start, but you don’t even know if you have ONE, much less 3 yet. Toler has a long way to go, DRC is inconsistent so far at best, and might not fit the scheme and Peterson hasn’t played a down in the NFL. Lets see them play before we conclude that you have 3 strong CB. So far its alot of unrealized potential, nothing more.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
IMO
You of all people should know not to count out “Money” Mike Adams, Your boy Rodgers picked on him all game and Adams punked him when it counted.
Like that mattered.
We would have dominated the Cards this year. Even someone like you KNOWS that!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
The Wisconsin Badgers would have dominated us this year
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Dominated...
Kind of like Week 17? How’d that work out…
OLD news Dude...
Your talkin 2 years ago! NFL stands for Not For Long… and the motto is what have you done for me lately!
Get w/ current events!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
They are the reigning SB Champs.
As opposed to Cardsfan928 living off ONE playoff win 2 years ago. BIG Difference.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I only bring it up
because you so impolitely make it a point to talk about the Packers every thread here, and newsflash nobody gives a f-ck about Green Bay IMO
Sorry you can't handle pertinent comparisons.
They were talking about having 3 strong CB and I pointed out that it didn’t help the Packers until they got a pass rush. It was pertinent to the conversation. Your kinda bitter about something… Must be the lack of winning, lack of a strong organization and general lack of a plan or ability to implement one.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Stroh...
Must be the lack of winning, lack of a strong organization and general lack of a plan or ability to implement one.
This is the stuff to avoid here in our Cards community. No need to argue back. It takes away from the point you are trying to make.
Like the Cardinals? Revenge of the Birds is where to go.
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And I'm kinda sick of bein called a troll
You gonna do something about that like you said you would? I get it he’s jealous and can’t expess it so he lashes out…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
what are
these backroom deals that you and Jess are making?
Maybe that should be a front page story.
Jess said he’d protect you from people being mean to you?
I'm curious also
I never got a single warning with some of the back and forth with the niner nation faithful’s…and I believed I used far harsher words than I used when I get my warning, but it is what it is.
The thing is
when you lash out in response, you validate his point. Please, I am loathe to ban a guy who is a true Cards fan and active member of the community, even if he crosses the line at times. I also value some of your viewpoints as a resident outsider. However, as a “guest”, it would be wise to sense when things begin to be contentious. When it does, it is best to draw back…as you are a guest.
Thx.
Like the Cardinals? Revenge of the Birds is where to go.
Like Arizona Sports in general? SB Nation Arizona is where you'll get it all.
Follow me on Twitter! @senorjessroot
I respond
He initiates. Never been good at taking it w/o dishing it back in kind. Call it my failing.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
You brought me up in this thread
saying I said something I didn’t and after checking out APC a bit last night, you do the same exact thing over there as well
Agreed
I don’t like banning anyone unless they are blatant trolls, although I have done it before with someone who had some controversial opinions that liked to argue with everyone on here early season.
For those of you who don’t remember, it was AZ Retiree, the only thing he ever posted was long winded rants on how much Coach Whiz sucked and how everyone who still supported him was an idiot (Basically, HardHat if you replace hating Leinart with hating Coach Whiz). Eventually I was so fed up with the arguments he was causing that I banned his account.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Hah
That’s why he/she completely disappeared…
At least it made things more peaceful
I did un-ban the account later though.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Yah I forgot about that guy.
It got to the point where I just skipped reading all of his posts.
Cardsfan928
If you truly don’t care about it, ignore it. That’s the best way to go.
Like the Cardinals? Revenge of the Birds is where to go.
Like Arizona Sports in general? SB Nation Arizona is where you'll get it all.
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Strohman
We disagree often and you do not deserve to be called a troll but you do tread dangerously close with comments like what Jess said. If you want to be treated with respect than please respect our team, our forum and our members.
Basically, stop talking about the Packers and stop comparing us to the Packers. Is forum is about the Cards not the Cards and how the stack up against the Packers.
by Jesse Reynolds on Jun 8, 2011 2:04 PM MDT up reply actions
I use them as examples
when it pertains to the subject at hand, since its the team I know best. I don’t look for ways to use or compare them.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Cool with me in that regard
You know I respect the Packers. Just not as much as the Steelers and Niners though :p
by Jesse Reynolds on Jun 8, 2011 5:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Strohman has a point
He brings up the Packers when they pertain to the subject. Yes, this is ROTB, and hearing about the Packers can get annoying, but the Packers is the team he knows best, and he’s just pointing out what he knows about each subject using the Packers as an example.
But yes, I would lay off the Packer talk here because it’s starting way too many arguments. Let’s all just stick to Cardinals-talk.
Not too mention
After a knee rehab that was supposed to leave him off the field until this season.
Getting Kolb does not absolutely require giving up DRC.
That’s only one possible option. In all likelihood Philly would prefer draft picks anyway.
True
And if you can get Kolb for 2 2nd’s I would do that. But as I’ve noted, DRC doesn’t fit the Steelers style D that Horton and it seems Whis wants. So that makes him a trade possibility. Thats all I’m saying.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I understand that.
I don’t believe they will let go of any of their top 3 corners though, even if DRC is not the ideal fit to a “Steelers” defense. Horton made it clear when he came in that he intends to build around the talent that he has. That he considers that to be an important factor in building a strong defensive unit. DRC has gobs of talent. Hopefully between the additions of Horton and Peterson he will get a fire lit under his ass and play to his potential this season. I wouldn’t put it past this coaching staff to bump him down to nickel corner. I don’t think they will but with how he half assed it some of the time last season he may well deserve it unless he changes.
Agreed on building the Defense to fit the talent on the team
Hopefully Whiz realized that on the offensive side of the ball this year too (throwing the ball constantly when the QBs weren’t able to execute the plays correctly).
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Thats a DC's job
Fit your D to the talent you have. Can’t fit a square peg in a round hole… Lets see him do it first. Saying it is one thing, being able to do it is another. Wasn’t he about the 3rd choice off Pitts D coaches?
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
That is also something that Bill Davis did not do
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Can't do it if you trade away the talent.
There is no benefit to Horton if the team trades DRC. But that’s not really the DCs job. His job is to build the best defense he possibly can. There is more than one way to do that. Gutting the roster and starting anew is not always the wrong way. This defense needs it’s fair share of dead wood cut out. DRC won’t and shouldn’t be part of that.
no benefit to Horton if the team trades DRC
No benefit to Horton, but if you get a franchise QB that is a major benefit for the TEAM! If you don’t have a QB, your dead in the water. A CB you can live without, a QB you cannot! After this past season I would think that would be exceedingly clear to you.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Didn't say you should, just to consider it.
But if it comes down to it, getting a QB for a CB is fair enough deal. Especially if DRC isn’t a good scheme fit.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I think his talent level
Will find a way into the scheme.
by Jesse Reynolds on Jun 8, 2011 8:42 PM MDT up reply actions
True
I’m just not ready to give up on him. Well see how he fits at the end of the season when we can also asses the other cb as well as other positions ie the qb. Kolb is no Rodgers and yes I have believed Rodgers would be this good before he was drafted and especially after where in he landed. Congrats on the sb. We here have hope Michael bidwill will turn things around. Go cards.
by draft on Jun 8, 2011 11:33 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Don't blame you for not wanting to give up on DRC.
He’s a tremendously talented CB. And I kinda was hoping the Pack would be able to draft him, tho his lack of physicality was a major concern, his talent and ability in man coverage were a perfect fit for the Pack.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Not willing to consider it.
The odds of another team singling out one player like DRC and saying deal or no deal are miniscule. There are way too many other options in getting a deal done.
Absolutely not!
I would like to see the cardinals trade for Kolb (as long as the lockout doesn’t last too long.) But it would be down right retarded to get rid of DRC. The Cardinals have lacked depth at corner for as long as I’ve been watching them. This team finally has turned a weakness into a strength. Their is no logic in ruining that before it starts.
If
He’s not willing to tackle anyone, he can be as much a liability as a strength.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
there's a reason
I brought up Deion. Deion couldn’t tackle me, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t one of, if not the best, cover corner ever.
Corners don’t need to be great tacklers, except in a cover 2 scheme.
That's a good point
Cover 2’ schemes do require more physical CB’s
by Jesse Reynolds on Jun 7, 2011 4:16 PM MDT up reply actions
DRC's biggest problem is he doesnt wrap up.
If you watch the Cowboys game again, he launches his body at the receiver shoulder first about 3-4 times that game. But he almost always missed becuase he didn’t wrap up.
Dont confuse tackling ability
with the need to tackle. Toler was getting beat like a drum all season long. He couldnt prevent the other guy from catching the ball so he had no choice but to tackle. Every team went at our corners because they could. DRC wont hit, and Toler couldnt cover. Do you recall how many times he got beat deep? It was a lot! Pat Pete starts after a couple of games and Toler goes to nickel. Mike Adams has a lot of heart but has no business being a corner. I move him to special teams and have him blitz in dime coverages-the QB cant see him and is too fast for a fat OL or TE to pick up. Other wise get him off the field.
I totally agree with the Morrison pick. Go after him Tulloch and Posluszny in hopes of getting one of them. Lenon did a great job but the cards need another james farrior type that is the anchor but does not get the recognition. And…it was great to see someone else that recognized how much better Rhodes is than Whoops I wiffed again Rolle! Dont forget the fumble returns for TDs. I believe he had a couple of those as well.
Much as I'd cringe of a '9er fan saw this
I’d like us to sign Manny Lawson. He probably won’t help our pass-rush out much, but he’d be an inexpensive way to upgrade our OLB’s. I doubt Obiozor makes the roster but I am with you in that I see us keeping more LB’s on the squad this year. I like adding a marquee free agent at ILB, but I do think we can get by with Lenon, an improved Washington, and a bit better depth. A guy like Joe Mays could make sense (special teamer, not too old, started for the Chiefs in ’09).
I don’t know if Gabe Watson was just the odd man out last year or if he’s on his way out but I look for Ian Williams or Anthony Gray (URFA’s) to push him, at least in camp. Don’t forget about our 6th round pick at DE, either. Branch is probably the only reserve lineman who’s job is secure.
As for CB, Toler and Peterson seem more like they fit the Horton profile than DRC does. I can’t really see them taking DRC off the field, but I am interested to see how things shake out.
DRC
He definitely doesn’t fit the Pitts model of a CB. THey want CB who can play physically and support the run. DRC just doesn’t fit that mold. At this point I don’t see them moving him, tho including him in a trade for Kolb makes some sense, given that he isn’t a scheme fit for the Pitts D. A 2nd and DRC for Kolb might seem expensive, but if they don’t think DRC will play a physical style (he won’t, its just not his style) they want, moving him is probably in everyones best interests.
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What makes you think
Horton’s Defense is going to play exactly like LeBeau’s? Did you ever think Ray Horton may want to make a name for himself? Kolb for DRC would be the biggest lopsided trade since Mike Ditka coached in New Orleans
Horton also mentioned playing a lot of man coverage in an interview I saw a while back
I think he will try to mix it up though.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Mixing it up is what Pitts D is all about.
They mix alot of different zones w/ a good amount of man. Probably about 40% or so man. They aren’t a strict zone team.
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What make you think he'll deviate from the Pitts style D? Kinda works both ways don't you think?
Has Horton ever been a DC before? No… So its likely he’ll go w/ what he knows. At least for a couple seasons. This isn’t Dom Capers or LeBeau who can adjust his schemes on the fly. Horton is likely to go w/ what he knows, until he knows his players better and gets his feet wet. Like I said, DRC doesn’t fit the Pitts style D, but that doesn’t mean he will be traded. In fact I doubt he will…
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I doubt it, too
One Pro Bowl is fantastic for a 3rd-year guy, but it’s also not enough to establish a guy as an elite, franchise player. Is he a lock to not be traded? No. Is it likely that they’re trying to fire-sale him after one so-so season? Also no.
Pittsburgh corners don’t really have a good reputation, so that’s part of the mystery we’ll be getting to the bottom of this season — how much of that was Horton and how much was the overall scheme? We do know that Horton has said he wants his CB’s keeping their eyes on the QB, which should help a ball hawk like DRC.
At least Horton should be able to get started assessing the players with film. Stupid lockout…
Hortons defense
We probably won’t get the full package this season due to the off season b.s. I suspect what we will see will be a hybridized defense of what the Cardinals have been running overlayed with Horton’s defensive schemes. There just won’t be enough time to fully install it.
Our Defense
Will not be an exact repilca of the Steelers D. The steelers play more zone than man because their corners suck in coverage. We had one for a year and we all know how that worked out. Ever heard of a coverage sack? Expect more than a few of these this next year. Our pressure will come from the blitz more than just stellar OLB play. DRC can play excellent man coverage on the smaller, faster wr’s in the league. He gets beat by bigger, stronger wr’s on the inside. BTW Deion Sanders, the best cover corner in the history of the league, would not and could not tackle anyone. I’m fine with DRC not tackling as long as his coverage is up to his potential. Moving him, even for a much needed QB, would be a mistake.
by billydacardsfan on Jun 7, 2011 6:05 AM MDT up reply actions
It would be a waste of DRC and Peterson to play so much zone.
And I didnt’ say the Cards D would be an exact replica, but it will be patterned after the Steelers. In regards to playing more man, that should be the single biggest difference. The point is, that the Steelers D calls for CB who can tackle and play physical in run support. Something DRC isn’t a physical CB, so in that regard he isn’t a fit. Deion was a good tackler enough when he had to be, but in Dallas D he wasn’t called on to play in run support, nor was he really interested in doing it if he didn’t have to.
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48%
That is the percentage nickel defenses were on the field last season in the nfl. No matter the pecking order all three of those corners will see plenty of playing time.
Great stat!
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Since this is a Cards blog I won't tell you how much the Packers played it. LOL
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Good
Maybe you can find a hobby while your at it
I don't even know how much the Cards played it.
They faced it I think something like 53% of the time though.
Agreed
Assuming Peterson works his way out of the nickel spot (which I’d like to see him spend plenty of time to see what kind of DB we are going to get) then Toler becomes one of the bigger playmakers out of the nickel this season.
What about Antonio Cromartie?
He’s a good veteran that could help the team out a lot.
Then again, he’s going to cost a ton of money, so I guess that takes him out of the discussion.
What is his status anyway?
Thought he was getting a deal done with the Jets, or had one in place already. Don’t imagine the Cards are looking at bringing in any big name players at corner now though.
Stiff hipped and
an older slower version of his cousin that we already have in DRC
Yeah, pretty much
Perennial underachiever, overpaid, with character concerns. Even if you take away two of those things, I don’t think he’d be a good fit. We’ve got three guys we want on the field already.
My take
Rde- Campbell is good and improving I would resign him. Branch can be resigned but i worry he just saw a contract and will regress. I would sign udfa Pierre allen I think he shows promise.
by draft on Jun 8, 2011 10:15 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
My take
Nt- Williams showed lots of potential last year should start. I’d sign Blaine sumner udfa to be a backup and specialteamer and fb in goal line situations.
by draft on Jun 8, 2011 10:19 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Ooh, Sumner is the other School of Mines guy
Yeah I definitely Google’d Blaine Summer at first… mistaaaake…
My take
Dt- docket. I like Carter and might bring in udfa Cedric Thornton to compete.
by draft on Jun 8, 2011 10:21 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
My take
SOLB- Sam Acho yeah I said it. Sign Marc Shiechl watch him take Acho Starting spot & rack up Seven Sacks yeah I said it! Sackseer loves this kid as a hidden gem. I keep davis.
SILB- Sturdivant fights udfa Mark Herzlich for starting spot.
WILB- Washington & Lenon
WOLB- Ob Schofield (10 sack season) & Joey Porter just cuz.
I like Shiechl, too
I really have no idea what to expect from the guy but I’d love to see him brought in.
Oh, what do you think about Mario Harvey?
He has the college production and pretty good athletecism to make it, imo. I really like that he put up 15.5 sacks the last two years from the ILB position (I guess they used him at OLB and DE occasionally, too). This report describes him as a hard-hitter who is not afraid of taking on blockers. Sounds like a good strong-side prospect, but I have to wonder if we didn’t already add a better version in Sturdivant. I also wonder if Reggie Walker offers a similar skill-set except with a couple years of NFL experience. Still, with those sacks you have to figure he has some pass-rushing ability, which might make him a surprise fit at ILB in a blitz-heavy scheme.
Everybody likes Herzlich and I think he’s one of the best prospects available (I believe his personal drive will set him apart from a lot of these guys), but I kinda have my eye on Harvey.
All shapes and sizes...
Doesnt have the size you might want as an OLB, but he does seem to have good athleticism for OLB, not too mention the sack numbers. I would look at him as a ILB. The thumper type, not the run to the ball type, who could be used as a blitzer on occasion.
Schiechl ran a good 40 and had the sack numbers to interest alot of 34 teams. I don’t recall his 10 split time, which would be a better indicator of pass rush ability. But all the 34 teams should be interested in him as an UDFA. He’ll definitely get a look…
If Herzlich can fully recover from his bout w/ cancer, he can be a impact player in the NFL. Really surprised teams didn’t take a flyer on these guys late in the draft.
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I was hearing Schiechl compared to Zombo as a prospect
I don’t think teams should go into it looking for a surprise 1st-year starter, but he definitely warrants a look. Schiechl also put up 38 bench reps or something absurd, and was adequate in other areas, I think.
They are saying about Herzlich that he’s already had his rebound season, and that was his senior year. Some expect him to really pick it up by the time the NFL gets rolling.
I’m with you. Seems like a number of guys left that really should have gotten a look in the last couple rounds that didn’t get called, especially some of the 3-4 pieces (as much as players that fit the D are in demand these days). I know I had a lot of guys on my list I wanted to see in Cardinal red before that Sampson fellow.
Sampson
Fits our WR theme right now.
Think about this: Housler and Dray are both 6’5. Dray is more powerful, Houlser is much faster.
Breaston and Doucet are 6’0, Fitz is 6’3, Sampson is 6’2, Isiah Williams is 6’4 and Stephen Williams is 6’5.
Throw Komar and Roberts in the slot as 5’11 guys with speed and you have yourself some match up problems. Physical teams will struggle with our slot guys speed and smaller teams will struggle with our height. IF we can get the ball to them of course.
by Jesse Reynolds on Jun 8, 2011 5:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Also
Other than Breaston and Roberts, all of our WR’s are over 200 lbs and are under 26 with the exception of Fitz at 27.
Again, It could be a pretty exciting group should we be able to get a QB.
by Jesse Reynolds on Jun 8, 2011 5:25 PM MDT up reply actions
I like the way you think....
Hopefully they are all working out with Skelton so we can finally say Arizona is a team that grooms it’s talent…
And Whiz is known as someone who is good at creating plays that exploit matchups.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
He does.
I think he is a very creative play caller, but he focuses on mismatches too much sometimes and expects his players to make the plays. Fair in many ways, but what you get is DA passing all the time because we say a lot of 1 on 1 coverage.
by Jesse Reynolds on Jun 8, 2011 8:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh, he definitely does
Those big 4.4 guys have been the theme for a while now. We had at least two more in camp last year, too. I don’t feel too badly about the pick, I just kinda wish they had picked up someone else and tried to get Sampson undrafted. They find so many of these guys as it is…
I like him
For all the reasons you stated I just had to make a choice and went with herzlich. I also like Scott lutrus.
by draft on Jun 8, 2011 11:37 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
My Take
SS- Wilson & udfa Jerod Johnson
FS- Rhodes & Johnson w/ udfa joe Lefeged
CB- DRC, PP7, Toler, AJ Jefferson & Marshay Green
Youth & Talent this along withHortons system which i suspect will be a blend of Lebeau & Capers Defensive styles.
Lefeged, yeah!
Looking over a few random lists of ‘top available UDFA’s’ I was surprised to see how many safeties are considered top options. I guess because it was perceived to be a weak class overall a lot of guys slipped through.
I think Lefeged has the speed and agility to develop the coverage skills he will need to become an all-around player. I think he’d be a great fit here because, even though he has very little experience playing in coverage, he can contribute on special teams (where we will need our 4th/5th safeties to play) and is already a strong player against the run.
34 zone blitz scheme
some here need to go spend some time reading up because our new scheme does not follow all the standards of a traditional 34 like say the Pats(2 Gap) nor is it a One Gap 34 like the Texans will play(Cowboys & Chargers too) maybe ill write a post with detailed breakdown but need to find thetime.
Way too many UDFA's
I think most of the talent we have is better than the UDFA’s you have listed.
by Jesse Reynolds on Jun 8, 2011 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions
You're probably right
I find myself guilty of this, too, but we’re a long ways off of 80 players right now. How many UDFA’s do we typically bring in? 8-12? If there’s a camp, we will need fodder!
Well I wanted youth
And some of the guys on our roster just havent cut it. Maybe time to cut strings. But yeah at the least fodder.
by draft on Jun 8, 2011 11:40 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Youth
Williams, Washington, Schofield, Peterson, Acho, Sturdivant, Carter. In the last two drafts. Your looking at the 3-4 NT we needed, an entirely new linebacking corp, a probable super star CB to pair up with our other 1st round CB and some depth on the line.
Loading up with UDFAs for camp is common but how much opportunity would they really have to prove themselves? They won’t get the attention they normally would while the team tries to make up for lost time.
Time is working against them
However, with practically the entire roster being on the bubble, there’s still opportunity here.
Opportunity here
Absolutely. The window for seizing it is just much, much tighter. Whisenhunt has shown that he will play undrafted players (Max Hall, Stephen Williams, A.J. Jefferson for example) and that will hopefully attract higher quality UDFAs to the Cardinals.
When the Cards turn them into productive NFL players.
THen the Cards can start getting higher quality UDFA. Just having alot of them doesn’t mean anything. They want to go where they are given equal opportunity as draft picks and where the team has a proven track record of UDFA succeeding. 2 teams come to mind… Pitts and the team I’m not allowed to mention! LOL
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Undrafted players want to go where they have a shot.
You aren’t going to find any that think “Oh Pittsburgh / Green Bay or forget it.”
3 made the Packers last year!
Shields, Zombo and McDonald, and that was a playoff team. How many did the Cards have? And Shields and Zombo played prominent roles on the team. How many UDFA rookies played prominent roles for the Cards? Every year the Packers find UDFA’s that make the team. Is that good enough to consider getting a shot?
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Did you pay any attention to the Cardinals last season?
UDFAs with prominant roles? How about Max Hall? Is quarterback prominent enough for you? Yeah he sucked but he was prominent. Stephen Williams and AJ Jefferson both played a fair amount and they both play positions that the Cardinals drafted last year. In fact they traded away Jorrick Calvin in favor of Jefferson.
I was not implying that UDFAs did not have a shot with those two teams. There are 30 other teams they have a choice to sign with also. They don’t all share your personal prejudices.
Reggie Walker from 09
Although he didn’t see a lot of playing time.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Seriously?
Max Hall played in what a couple games? Did he actually earn that playing time beating anyone out? And lets remember he played on a 5-11 team, not a playoff team, much less the SB winner. I don’t care about his position. What did he do for the Cards?
Williams had 9 freakin receptions, how does that qualify as prominent? And Jefferson had ONE tacke on his stat sheet for the year! How is that significant?
Shields won the nickel CB job in training camp by beating out 2 other CB who have been on the roster. Zombo started 8 games and it would have been about 12 if not for his injury. Not to mention starting the SB.
Not even same universe…
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The point is getting opportunity.
A team that offers a true opportunity to play is what will attract quality UDFAs. What previous UDFAs achieved with that opportunity is not significant compared to the knowledge that going to such a team will give you a better chance than another team might.
Max Hall played like crap but you asked for prominent. The Cardinals put up an undrafted rookie free agent against the defending superbowl champions and won. Think on that next time you start chest thumping over your beloved Packers. They are not untouchable.
I didn’t say that Jefferson or Williams were prominent. I said they both played a fair amount for undrafted rookies. Williams was ahead of Andre Roberts, the 3rd round pick that year, at the start of the season. Jefferson as I mentioned beat out the player they drafted for the position enough that they traded him off. Those are encouraging signals to undrafted players.
I asked for prominent players.
Max Hall was not prominent in the Cards season. He started 3 game and got benched. Neither Jefferson or Williams fit my description and I pointed that out. Some teams are alot more willing to give the UDFA a shot. My team is one of them. Every year it seems an UDFA makes the team and contributes in a prominent way. The Packers roster is littered w/ UDFA who have turned into heavy contributors and they are largely considered the most talented team in the league. What UDFA wouldn’t want that?
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When did I say they wouldn't?
I’m not the one trying to turn this into a Green Bay versus Arizona arguement. If you don’t think starting QB, even for just three games, isn’t prominent for an undrafted player fine. That’s your opinion. You can’t say he didn’t get his chance. He just sucked when he got it.
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