A look at how many starters have left since the Super Bowl
by JoeCB1991 on Jul 29, 2011 8:25 AM MDT
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PrintI have mentioned before on here that one of my worries about losing Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie in the Kevin Kolb trade is just bleeding away another good player like we have done over the last couple of years. Here is a way of showing you what I mean by looking at the starting lineup from Super Bowl 43 and how many of these guys are still around.
Here is the list copied directly from Wikipedia. I'll have a thing saying if they are still here or not, and if they are still here the words will be bolded. For free agents who haven't signed here or somewhere else yet, I'll consider them to still be Cardinals for this thing.
| Position | Arizona | ||
|---|---|---|---|
| OFFENSE | |||
| WR | Larry Fitzgerald - Here |
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| LT | Mike Gandy - Gone |
||
| LG | Reggie Wells - Gone |
||
| C | Lyle Sendlein - Here |
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| RG | Deuce Lutui - Here |
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| RT | Levi Brown - Here |
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| TE | Leonard Pope - Gone |
||
| WR | Anquan Boldin - Gone |
||
| QB | Kurt Warner - Gone |
||
| RB | Edgerrin James - Gone |
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| FB | Terrelle Smith - Gone |
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| DEFENSE | |||
| LE | Antonio Smith - Gone |
||
| LDT | Bryan Robinson - Here |
||
| RDT | Darnell Dockett - Here |
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| RE | Gabe Watson - Here |
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| LOLB | Chike Okeafor - Gone |
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| ILB | Gerald Hayes - Gone |
||
| ROLB | Karlos Dansby - Gone |
||
| LCB | Roderick Hood - Gone |
||
| RCB | Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie - Gone |
||
| SS | Adrian Wilson - Here |
||
| FS | Antrel Rolle - Gone |
||
So, out of 22 starters from the Super Bowl, eight of them are still here. Makes you think doesn't it. You can also look at how Steve Breaston who was so huge for this team in 2008 is also gone and now it is 8 of 23. At least some of the new starters (Calais Campbell, Dan Williams, Greg Toler) have looked good though.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Revenge of the Birds' (ROTB) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of ROTB's editors.
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The replacements for each of these
Have been just as good (bad) with 3 exceptions.
Warner retired..nothing we could do about that. D A …disaster
Q…wanted to leave. His replacement (Roberts)..downgrade
Dansby..left for more money than he was worth…Lennon…downgrade
Rolle..we got Rhodes..upgrade
The rest are all minor pieces. None of them would even be noticed if Warner was here lsat year.
No more night. I have seen the light. Let it shine on bright.
HANG HIM HIGHER!!!
by Cuckoo for Coco Puffs on Jul 29, 2011 8:43 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
D. Washington - replacement for Dansby.
He looks like he will be as good if not better than Dansby. Lenon was a stop gap. He turned out replacing Hayes for most of the season, not Dansby.
I think Warner is the only name that really had a huge effect
Interesting stuff.
by Drullin'OverDaCards on Jul 29, 2011 8:53 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Rhodes, Williams, Campbell and Toler are the only significant upgrades from that team
It’s obvious that Whiz and the cardinals are rebuilding this team and so far I can honestly say I’m not terribly impressed. the team is two more draft classes from challenging for the division. The bad thing is that things didn’t have to go down this way. now, just ask yourself, if you were a opposing defensive coordinator would you be scared to face this team? the answer is rather easy! there are some posters who think that the cardinals are going to challenge for the west this year and they’re just setting themselves up for a huge letdown.
by lifelongcardfan on Jul 29, 2011 10:55 AM MDT reply actions
My prediction is that whiz........
Will be fired in two years unless he is able to get some impact players in here!
by lifelongcardfan on Jul 29, 2011 10:57 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm thinking if we can get close to a playoff spot, Whiz gets one more year to figure some chinks in the team's armor.
If we make a playoff run, then yeah, Whiz gets two years.
"Keep a positive outlook, even when things are looking bleak. Remember, nothing is impossible."
Small-market crowds > Large-market crowds
David Stern and Associates - Bailing out the Lakers from 1984 to 2011.
What are you talking about?
What 7-10th best FA? You do realize that maybe they were saving money to sign Kevin Kolb to his huge contract? Did you forget that we still need to sign Fitz?
I’m getting tired of all the negative comments about the Cardinals. This isn’t the same old, cheap Cardinals. They’re spending money, and they’re spending a lot of it. Whether you like the moves or not, stop bringing up the cheap card.
by Skii on Jul 29, 2011 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions 4 recs
I think az_kevin...
is actually AZ_Retiree in disguise. My god his posts are depressing. The team last year sucked. What should they have done, gone out and spent money in an uncapped year knowing that the CBA was going to expire and knowing that they probably had little shot of repeating the past two years of success anyways? Its a new year and they have upgraded their OL with Colledge, the QB position with Kolb, the LB corps with Bradley, and are continuing to make moves. What more can you ask for? If they could sign Nnamdi for under 10 mill I’m sure they would go for it (as would any team), but they have to be realistic and also think about guys that are going to need contracts next year (FItz and CC)…
by Gildo on Jul 29, 2011 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
are these guys stop gap type players?
even with the new additions is this a quality team? a team that when you see them m on your schedule your saying to yourself “hhhmmmm we better be ready for the cardinals”. a team that as a coordinator you have to spend extra hours preparing your team for? any non cardinal fan will tell you no.
by lifelongcardfan on Jul 29, 2011 4:35 PM MDT up reply actions
We'll find out about that coordinator.
Non Cardinals fans opinions count for shit as they are almost always uninformed.
or the fans who cannot see more than 6-7 wins out of habbit
and cannot accept any critisicm that comes out of real analysis rather than blind following.
Agreed
I want to think that Horton is going to make our defense produce much like Haley did to our offense as a whole.
Are you guys kidding me.
is your head in the sand to not know what free agents have been available?
My message has been that the Cards keep looking for under rated players – as old habbit. In the past it helped them possibly get them for less. Now they are forced to spend per the CBA, but they keep looking for the under rated players and paying more. So, they are spending but not selecting the right players out of habbit.
Amongst the Free Agents available:
Colledge was ranked fairly low. There are still better players available for that position and would have agreed to similar deals
Stewart for the LB – he was consistently injured (lost 2009 season, had a concussion in 2010 and then lost last 4 games due to elbow injury). Why take him when there are better players still available.
Chansi – rated 50th out of 60 WR’s available. see http://www.walterfootball.com/freeagents2011OLB.php
Other teams have the same CBA constraints but are smarter in going about getting quality players. Cheap is the mindset and they have not come out of that as yet.
i agree
the naysayers just keep sayin nay. But lets face it. 90 percent of the cardinal fan base is fairweather fans. I remember when we played the Colts’ and halfway through the game our fans were leaving and the colts fans. which were everywhere were like “really, these people are just going to give up” we have crappy fans.. so these people should not sell out there tickets for every team who pays big to come here in watch cause they have crappy winters. be a fan.. Dont sell out to make a couple hundred bucks. and dont stop cheering after we go down a touchdown.
you guys are lame!
I think your logic is flawed
They people you call “naysayers” on this sight are likely hardcore, diehard Cardinal fans (who’s enthusiasm is tempered by years of futility with an occasional flash of brilliance) and have been for many years. The ra ra (we are going to the SB) guys are likely the fairweather fans that are giddy now and will disappear once or if things turn south.
by Drullin'OverDaCards on Aug 2, 2011 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions
its kinda impossible to be "cheap" with the new CBA
every HAS to spend the same amount of money. If they go and get the best FA available, they would have to release FItz to get the cap number down in order to do that. There is more to these acquisitions than “bargain” and “cheap”.
agree. It is also the mindset.
They are so used to looking to find bargains that they look for the mediocre and are now paying more for them.
I think you could be right!
the problem we have here is that our fans aren’t really looking at the strengths and weaknesses of the guys the cardinals have brought in. I know for a fact that the running game has taken a step backward with the Colledge signing because he provides no push. But he is a good pass protector.Eason is not an upgrade Stuckey isn’t an upgrade over breaston. Bradley is an upgrade if he is healthy but that a question too. so i see your point about dumpster diving for guys
by lifelongcardfan on Jul 29, 2011 4:47 PM MDT up reply actions
I have been spending a lot of hours in the free agent frenzy
and have been seeing teams with far less cap space make amazing moves to get better by signing better players. Not the cardinals. They have signed a few free agents but I do not see them as improvements on players we lost:
- Chanci Stuckey (rated 1 out of 5) is not anywhere close to Breaston (who rated 2 on a scale of 5, partly because of his health).
- Stew Bradley – rated 3/5. when players with rating of 4/5 who would probably take the same deal
- Esason – same thing
- Cooledge – average player. same thing.
Tell me a good FA we have signed who is healthy while we have lost Breaston, DRC, Alan Branch.
And we all know that our OL was real bad. We badly need a solid guard.
I own a business and have managed large teams and know what it takes to take risks, manage a budget and keep the strong people happy. hence the strong statements.
It still comes back
to the fact that none of us get paid to analyze players and make the decisions to field a football team. Whether you like ti or not, the FO and Whiz are making the decisions that they have determined will give us the best chance at being competitive. No one cares if you’ve run a business and know how to take risks. Unless you have run an NFL team, you aren’t more qualified to determine what decisions need to be made than the people making those decisions.
We all bleed Cardinal Red, but most of us don't recognize it!
"It takes no talent to give great effort"--Chris Petersen
You can be a mindless follower but I am not. Or you can be a fan who has a brain and can think to see when something can better. And that does not mean I am not a Cardinals fan. I live in Phoenix and like you have been a fan for 20 years.
As for not being paid, one does not have to be paid to think or see what can be improved. Just because someone is paid to do a job does not make them experts. The Cardinals FO is paid to do a job, they would not have performed so bad. After all they took a decision last year too. They were qualified. Does that make that the correct decision?
Rod Graves has been in the Cardinals organization for a long time and the Bidwells have owned this team for a long time. You would think they would have been SB winners atleast a few times, since they are the experts and are paid to do this time.
So, stop attacking other members of this forum personally as this forum is to express opinions just as you say you like a player signing or not, or even more basic, – by your logic, you should never vote because you were never the President or a Governor to understand the decisions made by them so how can you ever judge them.
A little something I noticed....
“You can be a mindless follower but I am not. Or you can be a fan who has a brain and can think to see when something can better. "
“So, stop attacking other members of this forum personally as this forum is to express opinions….”
There are 32 teams in the NFL
Only ONE (1) wins the superbowl in a given year. The majority of those 32 teams have “experts” in their FO, so it’s a hard job to be the ONE (1) FO to end up on top.
The Cardinals have not had a history of winning, this is a recent trend (with the exception of last year), and it has come at the hands of Graves and Coach Whiz. Why are you so ready to move on from the group that has made the Arizona Cardinals relevant in the game of football?
Faith Focus Finish
az_kevin...
Most of your replies have been a lot of what seems like conjecture. I would like to know who said better players are that have signed to other teams for similar deals or less money than the ones that we signed. Not that I have reason to doubt you, just that I am unaware of what players you are referring to. (And by the way, Alan Branch wasn’t lighting the world on fire)
by GivingThemFitz on Aug 19, 2011 9:55 PM MDT up reply actions
You're wrong.
The salary floor doesn’t go into effect until 2013 from what I’ve read.
You sir
Are correct. The total for the league must be spent, but not by the individual teams. Thats why the cheap ass Bungals are 49M below the cap. Anything under the amount league wide gets paid from the NFL to the NFLPA.
by billydacardsfan on Jul 31, 2011 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Just so I know these are meaningful statistics
How many does Pttsburgh still have on it’s roster (when they returned to the SB last year)
is that really your answer?
strong work Kevin
by quid pro quo on Jul 29, 2011 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions
well, they have their core together still...
They kept Rothlisberger, Ward, Harrison, Polamalu, etc… What the Cards lost last year were essentially those 4 players in terms of talent and leadership to their team (not comparing them player to player, just importance and performance-wise)
Most of them
Couple of these guys I’m not sure about, so I’ll just bold the ones that I know are still there
Pittsburgh Position
OFFENSE
Hines Ward WR
Max Starks LT
Chris Kemoeatu LG
Justin Hartwig C
Darnell Stapleton RG
Willie Colon RT
Heath Miller TE
Santonio Holmes WR
Ben Roethlisberger QB
Willie Parker RB
Carey Davis FB
DEFENSE
Aaron Smith LE
Casey Hampton NT
Brett Keisel RE
LaMarr Woodley LOLB
James Farrior LILB
Larry Foote RILB
James Harrison ROLB
Ike Taylor LCB
Bryant McFadden RCB
Troy Polamalu SS
Ryan Clark FS
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Phoenix Suns/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
maybe we're not Steelers west?
Chortle
by fansincejakenrob on Jul 29, 2011 3:09 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
especially on defense
you can see the steelers front office worked hard to keep that team together … kinda pisses me off about the Cards front office … even with the new stadium and some on field success, they could sign guys
I mean, the sad truth, we are just not a franchise willing to spend the money to win a championship … we need some luck
by quid pro quo on Jul 29, 2011 5:07 PM MDT up reply actions
thanks for seeing what I have been feeling.
Cards are spending the money but not being smart about it. I see the other organizations do a much better job under the same constraints and keeping their players motivated (does ot cost much). That instills loyalty (you cannot get that it in everyone) and want to come back and play for the same team.
forgot to mention
I have been a fan of the Cards and monitor them closely. Understand orgazniational behavior having managed large teams in large comapnies and manage my own company.
Hence the frustrations lately when I see them spending but could do so much better.
Come back
when you have experience running an NFL team and talk about what it takes to do so before you knowck the guys that getpaid to do so.
We all bleed Cardinal Red, but most of us don't recognize it!
"It takes no talent to give great effort"--Chris Petersen
You can be a mindless follower but I am not. Or you can be a fan who has a brain and can think to see when something can better. And that does not mean I am not a Cardinals fan. I live in Phoenix and like you have been a fan for 20 years.
As for not being paid, one does not have to be paid to think or see what can be improved. Just because someone is paid to do a job does not make them experts. The Cardinals FO is paid to do a job, they would not have performed so bad. After all they took a decision last year too. They were qualified. Does that make that the correct decision?
Rod Graves has been in the Cardinals organization for a long time and the Bidwells have owned this team for a long time. You would think they would have been SB winners atleast a few times, since they are the experts and are paid to do this time.
So, stop attacking other members of this forum personally ( as you have atatcked on several messages) as this forum is to express opinions just as you say you like a player signing or not, or even more basic, – by your logic, you should never vote because you were never the President or a Governor or anyone in power to understand the decisions made by them so how can you ever judge them.
Keep hearing all about how the Steelers know when to cut players loose.
Expect to see some of those defensive players gone in the near future too.
This level of roster turnover is not unique to the Cardinals.
Turnover is generally a lot faster than people imagine. Teams keep some key players as their core and shuffle through a lot of other players. This is not as dire as it may appear.
the point was that Cardinals keep losing good players
to get replaced by aged players past their prime as stop gap or “projects” or rookies who need time to develop and then (many of them) leave when their contract is up.
Yeah
just like every other team. That was my point. Historically the Cardinals have been shitty about this. They have not been a well run franchise ever. It’s not news to anyone. Whisenhunt gave the Cardinals three straight season in without a losing record. There is reason for optimism. Your analysis is not the be all end all. Quoting WalterFootball rankings doesn’t earn you much in my book. They’ve not impressed me whatsoever. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not a raging homer and I actually do appreciate your contributions, precisely because they are contrary. Losing this many players from a superbowl team is completely normal though. It’s not something for anyone to get stirred up about.
I like our signings.
So they aren’t rated super high on some scouts or websites FA tracker, whatever.
They address needs, all have played at a high level and came relatively cheap (outside of Kolb).
Coolidge was ranked the 7th best guard in 2009.
Bradley was considered on track to becoming elite after all the numbers he put up in 2008.
Stuckey is considered unrated after starting his career on a bad Cleveland team.
Two sides to every story. I see a lot of potential and I like the moves.
by Jesse Reynolds on Jul 29, 2011 6:28 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm happy with them, as well
Bradley & Coolidge were pleasant surprises to go along with a few under-the-radar depth/role signings.
Hoping for a couple more.
Maybe Whisenhunt
is trying to be a poor man’s Belichick, but it’s going to take some drafting like this year, where we just plain go Best Player Available to get us over the hump.
and learn to appeal to big name players like haynesworth and Ochocinco
so when other teams sour on them after couple years and last portion of guaranteed money is paid, Cards can trade for them for pennies on the dollar.
I commend the Patriots for the amazing trades they have made for these big names and taken very little risk. And it helps that these players know that they have a couple strikes against them and they improve their attitude too (hopefully).
Patriots turn around started at the owner level.
They were run horribly under the Sullivans. It wasn’t until Bob Kraft acquired them that they began to get things right. Everyone talks about Belichik, and rightfully so, but Kraft seems largely ignored in these matters. I would rather see Michael Bidwill take some cues from Bob Kraft in how to operate. It would be more significant.
I believe that
one must always look to learn the good things from others – friend or foe. And they must also learn what not to do from others so not to repeat those mistakes.
So, just because I admire the way the Pats have found ways to hire strong players at low risk does not mean I have to be a fan. I live in Phoenix and am Cards fan.
You do not have to marry every beautiful woman you see.
Some guys on here don't get it man!
I also believe that the team have done a below average job this free agency! Some guys actually think that all of a sudden because they are cardinals their play will be elevated. Other than kolb and maybe bradley, the guys the cardinals have brought in arent better than the players they replaced! The good organizations, if they were in this bad division would recognize that they could win it if they went after players that were upgrades instead of making moves that are lateral moves like the cardinals appear to have done. I .completely understand your frustration with this organization
by lifelongcardfan on Jul 30, 2011 12:03 PM MDT up reply actions
You're a dirty, dirty liar!
Nick Eason over Gabe Watson/Alan Branch/Kenny Iwebema all day, all night!
Cooledge over an aged Faneca.
Stuckey over unproven rookies.
King over Spach/bitter Becht
I see improvement.
by Jesse Reynolds on Jul 31, 2011 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions
bitter Becht---Haha!
No more night. I have seen the light. Let it shine on bright.
HANG HIM HIGHER!!!
by Cuckoo for Coco Puffs on Jul 31, 2011 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions
They had lots of needs to address
I still think they continue to build this team into a better franchise. They have a vision and you can see the building in the picks at positions. There have been mistakes either in draft picks not panning out or just poor skillset assessment. However given all the needs this team had and then the frenzy of FA this year, I think they’ve done a pretty good job of upgrading or maintaining positions. I think the key is Whiz has said several times his expectation for “some of our young guys” to step up. So there is that belief and guys will need to step up.
So what?
Do you, you want to go into this season with Edge, The B Train & Rod Hood?
Players age, every season is different. I would love to see if KW can still bring it, but if we went into 2011 fielding the same team as 2008 we would not win many games. The planets aligned almost perfectly that year, but that is is the past, time marches on, reload and see how do this year. Last year was kind of transition and we should be back on the upswing this year. I think we are better but maybe not a SB team yet either. The Superbowl team shocked the world, they weren’t expected to be there either. Lets go out and play for now. If you want to live in the past, I have a 2008 Highlights video you can watch for 16 weeks this year.
Chicago Cubs - Arizona Cardinals 167 combined years and no rings
I guess I'm a masochist
Gabe is gone...
Well about last season.....
by AZcardinals480 on Aug 20, 2011 12:59 PM MDT reply actions
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